15 replies to this topic

[CRXer87hf]

Riddle me this gents and ladies...

 

In the pasted few weeks or so, I've been noticing odd things while driving.  The first thing I noticed was the under acceleration, the car seemed to pull to the left; it felt like torque steer, which in these cars, is unheard of.  I played around with it at different speeds and realized that it felt like the drivers side wheel was driving the car by itself, or was getting power way before the passenger side wheel.  When I get off the throttle at speed, the car then veers slightly to the right, and when I get back on it, it heads to the left.  You should know that the car has brand new axles, wheel bearings, and I just aligned it a week ago to make sure it wasn't the suspension.  When checking the suspension, I noticed that there was a lot of play when turning the passenger side wheel back and forth (the gap between when the opposite wheel begins to turn in either direction).  Also, a chatter has recently started coming from the transmission under heavy acceleration, and right at clutch-on/clutch-off.

 

That being said, the car has been driving fine, but for the slight veering under acceleration and off pedal at speed... until yesterday.  I was trying to get around some idiot in a minivan on an entrance ramp.  I gassed the crap out of it and that's when things went nuts.  The car suddenly started transferring all power back and forth from the drivers side wheel to the passenger side wheel rapidly causing the car to veer sharply in the direction of the powered wheel.  I had to saw at the wheel like a Finnish rally driver to keep the car straight.  After soiling my undergarments, I got off the throttle and continued down the highway at a steady speed, under light acceleration.  All was well.  

 

What the hell is going on?!  Bad clutch?  Bad Trans?  Any thoughts are welcome here.

 

Thanks!

[del]

Consider loose suspension on one side. Here's a diagram explaining why it could be that



Just a thought, considering you were changing suspension stuff, it's possible that something came loose or wasn't fastened entirely.

[anjin]

I haven't had one go, but on that description I'd be checking the differential in the gearbox. The diff centre bearings etc could be worn and allowing more power to one axle.  Quite how to do it without disassembley I don't know, but a gearbox shop should be able to give some advice.

 

Given the work involved in a gear box job, check everything else first.

[Bars84CRX]

First, I'd vote worn suspension as del points out, specifically tie rods first per your description of the slop.

Second, have you tried swapping tires, both left to right and front to back?  (If no change then you've isolated at least something out of the equation.  Yeah, it's a bit of work but easier than swapping the trans.)

 

BTW, a good alignment guy should have caught the worn tie rods.  Can't do a good alignment w/worn parts.

Edited by Bars84CRX, 20 August 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[CRXer87hf]

Thanks for the feedback!  

 

Looks like the consensus is that its something in the suspension rather than the transmission, or at least, that's what I'm hoping is the case.  A little more background on the front suspension: New tie-rod ends, LCAs, Axles, wheel bearings with Koni Yellow shocks, factory t-bars, factory sway bar, and Lightspeed sway bar.  I have not changed the actual tie rods, so that will have to be the next thing on the list to change.  The steering rack seems sound, so they could be the weak link in all this.  The tires don't have 10k on them.  I'll rotate the tires to make sure that's not part of the issue.

 

Do you think it could be as simple as a bad bushing somewhere allowing too much movement in the front chassis?  I haven't changed any bushings.

[del]

Thanks for the feedback!  

 

Looks like the consensus is that its something in the suspension rather than the transmission, or at least, that's what I'm hoping is the case.  A little more background on the front suspension: New tie-rod ends, LCAs, Axles, wheel bearings with Koni Yellow shocks, factory t-bars, factory sway bar, and Lightspeed sway bar.  I have not changed the actual tie rods, so that will have to be the next thing on the list to change.  The steering rack seems sound, so they could be the weak link in all this.  The tires don't have 10k on them.  I'll rotate the tires to make sure that's not part of the issue.

 

Do you think it could be as simple as a bad bushing somewhere allowing too much movement in the front chassis?  I haven't changed any bushings.

Absolutely! Bushings are definitely worth investigating

[anjin]

Don't know about it being suspension - and any work on tie rods should have exposed steering rack issues.

 

Just to clarify - when you said "I noticed that there was a lot of play when turning the passenger side wheel back and forth (the gap between when the opposite wheel begins to turn in either direction)."  This was rotating the passenger wheel and seeing when the other side started to move or not, or moving the passenger side wheel as if the steering was doing it and finding a delay?  I thought you were describing the first one.  Combined with "  Also, a chatter has recently started coming from the transmission under heavy acceleration, and right at clutch-on/clutch-off." I thought it sounded like gearbox.

 

Suspension bushing wise, there isn't a lot at the front.  The rear of the radius rod where it goes into a tube on the subframe has some bushes that would be worth checking - and that the bolt there is tight.  Pretty tough bushings in my experience, and the bolt is the nylock style, but worth checking. The next major bush is the top of the strut.  Then there are the anti-roll bar links, and the bushings for the bar itself.  Then there are the steering rack attachment bushes. Can't think of any more.

 

If you find nothing there, try looking over the front subframe itself.

 

Ah - just recalled a couple of recent issues involving the rear engine mount.  Check the engine mount rubbers.

 

Good luck with it.

[CRXer87hf]

Don't know about it being suspension - and any work on tie rods should have exposed steering rack issues.

 

Just to clarify - when you said "I noticed that there was a lot of play when turning the passenger side wheel back and forth (the gap between when the opposite wheel begins to turn in either direction)."  This was rotating the passenger wheel and seeing when the other side started to move or not, or moving the passenger side wheel as if the steering was doing it and finding a delay?  I thought you were describing the first one.  Combined with "  Also, a chatter has recently started coming from the transmission under heavy acceleration, and right at clutch-on/clutch-off." I thought it sounded like gearbox.

 

Suspension bushing wise, there isn't a lot at the front.  The rear of the radius rod where it goes into a tube on the subframe has some bushes that would be worth checking - and that the bolt there is tight.  Pretty tough bushings in my experience, and the bolt is the nylock style, but worth checking. The next major bush is the top of the strut.  Then there are the anti-roll bar links, and the bushings for the bar itself.  Then there are the steering rack attachment bushes. Can't think of any more.

 

If you find nothing there, try looking over the front subframe itself.

 

Ah - just recalled a couple of recent issues involving the rear engine mount.  Check the engine mount rubbers.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Yeah, I suspect you're right.  I'm still driving it (carefully), and the more I drive it the more I do not think it's the suspension.  I've disassembled and reassembled the front suspension almost 5 times trying to diagnose this issue, along with adding new parts.  The bushing that I know are bad are the stock sway bar bushings, and they wouldn't cause this issue.  I'll double check the steering rack bushings just to be sure.  It probably sounds like I'm shooting in the dark, and it feels like I am, but I'm just trying to exhaust all other options before I get into the transmission.  

 

Regarding turning the front wheel back and forth, your first thought was correct (This was rotating the passenger wheel and seeing when the other side started to move or not).   I have suspected the diff, but since I rarely see these diffs going wrong, I was leaving that as the last option.  It really does feel that there is a ton of play between the axles, and the axles are brand new, so the joints aren't causing it.  I don't know if this is related at all to the diff issues, but under harder acceleration, around 4k rpms, the tach jumps ever so slightly.  I always thought that was weird.

 

Thanks again for the help.

[PuddleSkipper]

To second part of what anjin said I recall in Honda tuning that after hitting a 1/4 this car wanted to almost spin out or maybe it did for some reason a couple times and they just couldn't figure it out. Turned out the subframe was misaligned. After aligning it it was straight 1/4's from then on. My subframe became misaligned quite a bit awhile back. That was because when I jacked it up I would jack it up an excessive amount before placing a jack stand under it. I learned that under the center of the lower radiator core support there is a nice bump to jack up on the fits nicely into my floor jack or even the factory screw jack. If you jack it up there it jacks up both sides evenly.

[niccer]

I'll have a spare Si tranny down here at the beginning of September if you want to swap them out to eliminate the possibilities.  Also have a poly bushing kit too if you want to install.  

[del]

With the explanation of the wheel spin issue, disregard my earlier posts. Something else is probably going on

[CRXer87hf]

To second part of what anjin said I recall in Honda tuning that after hitting a 1/4 this car wanted to almost spin out or maybe it did for some reason a couple times and they just couldn't figure it out. Turned out the subframe was misaligned. After aligning it it was straight 1/4's from then on. My subframe became misaligned quite a bit awhile back. That was because when I jacked it up I would jack it up an excessive amount before placing a jack stand under it. I learned that under the center of the lower radiator core support there is a nice bump to jack up on the fits nicely into my floor jack or even the factory screw jack. If you jack it up there it jacks up both sides evenly.

 

Interesting!  How would I go about realigning it if it is out of alignment?  Can I do it myself with basic measuring tools?

 

I'll have a spare Si tranny down here at the beginning of September if you want to swap them out to eliminate the possibilities.  Also have a poly bushing kit too if you want to install.  

 

 

Great!  I might take you up on that!

 

With the explanation of the wheel spin issue, disregard my earlier posts. Something else is probably going on

 

10-4.

[PuddleSkipper]

/I didn't align it myself so I can't really tell you something I have no experience doing. I just took it in to the alignment shop, It's called "The Line-Up Shop" off 102nd in Portland, real honest guys and last time I took something in they were only charging $45 for the front. They use mechanical alignment machines with pits and after awhile they said they kept trying to align it and something wasn't right so they measured the subframe and realized it was out of wack. Maybe they measured the distance to something? Anyway they didn't charge me any more to do it, it was still just $45. One thing that might be worth mentioning as well.............every one assumes the laser alignment systems are the the best because they use lasers, it's technology, and it just sounds cool! When the laser alignment machines get off they have to recalibrate them with a mechanical alignment machine.

[CRXer87hf]

/I didn't align it myself so I can't really tell you something I have no experience doing. I just took it in to the alignment shop, It's called "The Line-Up Shop" off 102nd in Portland, real honest guys and last time I took something in they were only charging $45 for the front. They use mechanical alignment machines with pits and after awhile they said they kept trying to align it and something wasn't right so they measured the subframe and realized it was out of wack. Maybe they measured the distance to something? Anyway they didn't charge me any more to do it, it was still just $45. One thing that might be worth mentioning as well.............every one assumes the laser alignment systems are the the best because they use lasers, it's technology, and it just sounds cool! When the laser alignment machines get off they have to recalibrate them with a mechanical alignment machine.

 

Wow, sounds like a good shop!  That actually brings up something I hadn't mentioned earlier regarding alignment.  I can't align the car on a traditional alignment rack because it has no jack points.  They rusted out and I had to cut them out and just patch the holes.  I've sniffed around looking for an old-school roll-on alignment rack, but there aren't any around.  This means, I've been aligning my car my self, with the fishing line trick.  Seems to work pretty well, but I figured I should mention that.  I'll do some rough measuring to check the subframe while I'm under there.

[Mrfixit]

It's the differential.I had mine go out the same day I got my swap done. It's the strangest feeling driving like that cause you never know where the car is going. I replaced the trans and did not change anything in the suspension and everything is good now. I heard a loud bang when mine went out.