36 replies to this topic

[OG Wagon]

We'll, it left for the meet on Saturday, but never got there.

You know you've done it WRONG when this happens.














Wait for it...
















As you can see from the pic above, there are some bolts missing there on the front wheel. 20 of them, to be exact. The other 7 bolts are why I'm alive typing this right now, lol!

Apparently, one should use RED loctite during re-assembly of MR5 wheels, NOT the blue loctite, like yours truly used. I had driven roughly an hour and a half, pushing 85 mph, then felt some harsh road vibrations. So, I pulled off at the Burlington, NC exit and stopped at a Chevy dealership to check out what was going on with my car. What I found: quite horrific. Only 7 bolts remained holding my front-drivers-side rim together!

Man, I'm blessed that I stopped when I did!! If I had decided to go one more exit, it would have been very ugly for me (and others).

I thought I did my homework on this one. Re-tighten in a criss-cross pattern, 25 lbs. of torque, use loctite. I went with blue, thinking that red would have to be heated off later. Since I thought I might like to repaint them in future years, I decided to go with blue, as it was my understanding that red loctite'd bolts had to be removed with torching/heat. I am ashamed to say that I did not use a torque wrench either. I couldn't find anyone who had one, and didn't want to shell out the $75 up front to borrow one. However, I don't think that this was my problem. Perhaps I"m wrong though. I tightened the bolts in a criss-cross pattern to as much torque as each bolt would safely take (without stripping). I triple-checked each bolt for solid tension prior to putting them on.

Anyway, obviously the blue wasn't enough.

So, I never made it to the meet. However, I almost meet death, so I'd say the outcome was much better than it could have been.

The damage: Lost 20 Mugen bolts somewhere on I-85. big yeah on finding replacements!

I think 1 or 2 of the bolt holes have thread damage. The others appear OK. I'll probably have to have those holes re-tapped.

Through the course of the event, my valve stem was damaged and needs to replace. Tire won't hold air, leaking at valve stem.

Luckily I had a little-bity spare tire with me.

Also, greatly to my luck, Home Depot was within a short walking distance of the Chevy dealership that I pulled over at. They were VERY kind to me, and let me borrow all of the tools that I would need to get home safely (even an 8mm 12-point socket!)

I spent the next few hours disassembling the rims, putting red loctite on each bolt, and re-assembling them.

I then drove home with 3 Mugens and the itty-bitty spare at 50 mph. Took about 2.5 hours, and sucked!

So, am I assuming that what went wrong was the wrong choice in loctite? Did I over-torque the bolts? (some have said use only 10 lbs. of torque, but this seems way too small to me). I checked my bolts on the 3 mounted this morning, after their long trip home. None of them were loose, so perhaps the red is going to hold. Should I use a loctite stronger than red?

Anyway, glad to be alive. Better luck next meet!

[jjamiemmark]

WOW OH WOW

[Toneco]

thank god your okay and got home safely. hope you solve your MR5 issues. also Im not sure if you road on your tire with that much air but if you did i strongly recommand that you dismount your tire if you havent done so(to replace a valve stem most people dont dismount the tire they just press down on the side wall and replace it) once you dismount the tire check if you have rubber deposites in the tire should resemble eraser deposites very fine if so you road on the flat to long and there for the tire is no good ur side wall is demaged and its deadly to ride on a tire once thats happened. Just looking out for you bro. if you know of this thank god if not I just told you.

Edited by Toneco, 24 May 2010 - 12:46 AM.

[JEM MotorSports]

...wow
good to know.

Edited by JEM MotorSports, 25 May 2010 - 01:22 PM.

[ChrisF-dude]

Wow, I am NOT taking my MR5s apart. I remember asking about the MR5 torque specs on H-T years ago before getting banned. The wheel section moderator told me the 25 ft lbs on the reassembly of the rims, but I don't recall the loctite coming up. Glad you're okay. Any of the other wheels have any damage? Maybe this will help;

http://www.redpepper...hl=mugen bolts

Also search Honda Tech and maybe you'll find more info.

[Old School REX]

Ohh nOOOOOeessSS!!! DUDE! I'm just glad to hear that your okay man! This is still such a shame! Was the road vibration from the tire going flat?...............................................................





Or from your beautiful wheel face bending? I hope not. Glad your okay man.

[Stuckey85si]

Thank god you pulled over!


I thinking maybe us NC guys should have each others numbers or something. I am in Raleigh (about 45 min from Burlington) with a truck and trailer. I would have been more than happy to help you out. Knowing a pepper that is around sure beats a tow bill.

Joseph

[dnocrx]

sorry to hear about ur trip,i'm in the process of putting my MR5's back together as we speak.u really can't be sure if the blue loctite is what failed on u because u never used the torque wrench to tighten them,my plan was the blue and torquing them to 22 ft.lbs....now i wonder????

[Jaminak]

Crazy! Glad you're OK!

[OG Wagon]

sorry to hear about ur trip,i'm in the process of putting my MR5's back together as we speak.u really can't be sure if the blue loctite is what failed on u because u never used the torque wrench to tighten them,my plan was the blue and torquing them to 22 ft.lbs....now i wonder????

Hey, nice CRX in your pics there. Share some more pics!

Regarding the torque wrench. True. However, I torqued them down very consistently and safely. They would have not taken much more torque, as they are just not meant to. Neither is the seat for them. Additionally, I have a good bit of experience in torquing by "feel". Being a percussionists, I tune drums in a criss-pattern near weekly. And with the high tension of Kevlar marching heads, I pretty use to feeling consistentency at high-torque/lbs. scenarios. I'm very confident that the torquing was consistent. My main concern was whether it was just too much. I don't THINK so. But, perhaps.

I did some more google-ing last night. Seems the general concensus is 25 lbs. of torque. However, I did see another "group" of folks that seem to think that 10 lbs. is the magic number.

Either way, DO use red loctite! Two reasons: (1) After driving nearly 130 miles on red loctite bolts, they all retained their tension. So, easy comparison there. I just hope that they will CONTINUE to do so. (2) During reassembly, I saw remnants of red-loctite being used on the rims for the last rebuild of them (prior to my ownership). The tires held together fine for a year for me before I began my rebuild a couple of weeks ago. So, I'd say red is the minumum here. PLEASE, PLEASE don't use blue. Trust me, I got atleast 25 lbs. of torque on each bolt, and they still did not hold. My other question is: Should I go stronger? Like, as in, Yellow Loctite?

I am VERY fortunate to be alive and OK. I'm also very grateful that my miscalculations on which type of loctite to use did not result in injury or death for others as well. Praise the Lord! I believe that God sometimes wispers to us, and if we don't listen, sometimes he shouts! The other part of this story...

I've spent the whole week focusing on getting the car ready for the meet. Not really focused on God as much as I was the car, honest truth. Saturday unfolded as such: Woke up, raining a bit (whisper=don't go). Stopped raining, sun came out for a bit. Yours truly spends an hour washing the car meticously inside and out. Get it ready to go. Pull out my brand spakin' new shiny Mugen replica decals off of Ebay. They look great, cut beautifully. However, they stick to the backing paper, and won't peel correctly. They are no good, and need to be sent back to the seller. I'm upset/frustrated because now the wheels won't look as "sweet" (whisper=doesn't matter what the wheels look like. Are you worshiping idols before me?). Moments later, starts to pour, moonsoon style. But just for 5 minutes, then back to sun. Just long enough to dirty the car up. Highly Ironic? Maybe, or maybe another whisper (It's going to rain all day anyway. Just change your plans. Stay home and spend time with your family. Another show will come for another time. This is not your time). I definitely heard that last wisper loud and clear. To be honest, I blatently ignored it, and was head-strong/determined to go to this meet. Married men will understand: I had told the wifey months earlier about it. I was "in the clear" for some free time and a day of car stuff. Wasn't going to miss out on that. "These types of oppurtunites don't come very often at all", I thought to myself. "You better go while you can!"

So, I say these things for two reasons: (1) So that non-believers out there will know that God does not wish ill-will on anyone. He tried to avoid this whole thing for me. Had I just listened, I could have saved a lot of headache, and perhaps my life. I wanted to do it MY way, not HIS way. And it almost cost me this time. I really did hear him say all of those words. When you are a believer and you are in His word, you can hear him speak to you. I was just stubborn. What a mistake!

(2) The Bible talks specifically about not having false-Gods/idols, and putting those before God.

Deuteronomy 5:7 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Don't get me wrong, our passion for cars is not a bad thing, and I don't mean to condemn anyone on here but myself. Cars are cool. But lately, I think it's fair to say I've been going a little overboard.

So, I didn't listen, and finally, God had to shout to me to get His point across. But look at how he did it, and with what incredible grace and mercy! Seven bolts left, and he whispered for me to pull over. This time, fortuantely, I did listen! And I could have pulled over earlier. But, there wouldn't have been a Home Depot with helpful people and the correct tools, and a straight/even and empty parking lot at the Chevy dealership. And a Sheetz gas station with free air for the tires in the parking lot next door. His timing was perfect for the whole thing. Really, I was blessed.

So, I learned a lot more than red vs. blue loctite. My hope is that some of you might gain some insight throgh my experience as well...

[ChrisF-dude]

My screen sucks. Did the bolts break, leaving the bottom portion in the rim or did they work their way out and fall out completely?

http://honda-tech.co...d.php?t=1530301
http://honda-tech.co...ad.php?t=679620
http://www.honda-tec...d.php?t=1674768
http://honda-tech.co...d.php?t=1585674
http://www.ht-archiv...d.php?t=2384629

^ As you can see the torque spec theories range from 10-51 ft lbs. When I had mine, I was told specifically by someone they were 25ft lbs, any more and the b olts would stretch or break, or strip the threads in the barrel. Would a torque wrench be able to find the proper torque on disassembly? I can try to get one off if that helps.

[NWClassicHonda]

Ouch!!!

[A-Man]

i read through most of this thread.

and from the pics what i can make out what happened was u painted the mating surface of the bolts on the rim.
this means there is a materiel that is compressable between the 2 surfaces (the bolt and the rim and the rim and the rim face).

ive seen this happen alot where new paint and not cleaning the surfaces will loosen the bolts.

u need to remember you get alot of heat and vibration through those wheels.

i would put money on that being the problem ive seen it alot.




also i didnt realise these were a 2 peice rim mine at home dont have nuts on the inside does that mean mine are aswell?

[Toneco]

[quote name='OG Wagon' date='May 24 2010, 09:27 AM' post='491984']

I myself are a believer but not the best woreshipper, Ive had a few whispers myself and screams. I know forsure this sunday I will be seated in the good ol houes of god, Its been to long. And about to start my build I need the Help that counts most.

[Jayscrx]

Hey, nice CRX in your pics there. Share some more pics!

Regarding the torque wrench. True. However, I torqued them down very consistently and safely. They would have not taken much more torque, as they are just not meant to. Neither is the seat for them. Additionally, I have a good bit of experience in torquing by "feel". Being a percussionists, I tune drums in a criss-pattern near weekly. And with the high tension of Kevlar marching heads, I pretty use to feeling consistentency at high-torque/lbs. scenarios. I'm very confident that the torquing was consistent. My main concern was whether it was just too much. I don't THINK so. But, perhaps.

I did some more google-ing last night. Seems the general concensus is 25 lbs. of torque. However, I did see another "group" of folks that seem to think that 10 lbs. is the magic number.

Either way, DO use red loctite! Two reasons: (1) After driving nearly 130 miles on red loctite bolts, they all retained their tension. So, easy comparison there. I just hope that they will CONTINUE to do so. (2) During reassembly, I saw remnants of red-loctite being used on the rims for the last rebuild of them (prior to my ownership). The tires held together fine for a year for me before I began my rebuild a couple of weeks ago. So, I'd say red is the minumum here. PLEASE, PLEASE don't use blue. Trust me, I got atleast 25 lbs. of torque on each bolt, and they still did not hold. My other question is: Should I go stronger? Like, as in, Yellow Loctite?

I am VERY fortunate to be alive and OK. I'm also very grateful that my miscalculations on which type of loctite to use did not result in injury or death for others as well. Praise the Lord! I believe that God sometimes wispers to us, and if we don't listen, sometimes he shouts! The other part of this story...

I've spent the whole week focusing on getting the car ready for the meet. Not really focused on God as much as I was the car, honest truth. Saturday unfolded as such: Woke up, raining a bit (whisper=don't go). Stopped raining, sun came out for a bit. Yours truly spends an hour washing the car meticously inside and out. Get it ready to go. Pull out my brand spakin' new shiny Mugen replica decals off of Ebay. They look great, cut beautifully. However, they stick to the backing paper, and won't peel correctly. They are no good, and need to be sent back to the seller. I'm upset/frustrated because now the wheels won't look as "sweet" (whisper=doesn't matter what the wheels look like. Are you worshiping idols before me?). Moments later, starts to pour, moonsoon style. But just for 5 minutes, then back to sun. Just long enough to dirty the car up. Highly Ironic? Maybe, or maybe another whisper (It's going to rain all day anyway. Just change your plans. Stay home and spend time with your family. Another show will come for another time. This is not your time). I definitely heard that last wisper loud and clear. To be honest, I blatently ignored it, and was head-strong/determined to go to this meet. Married men will understand: I had told the wifey months earlier about it. I was "in the clear" for some free time and a day of car stuff. Wasn't going to miss out on that. "These types of oppurtunites don't come very often at all", I thought to myself. "You better go while you can!"

So, I say these things for two reasons: (1) So that non-believers out there will know that God does not wish ill-will on anyone. He tried to avoid this whole thing for me. Had I just listened, I could have saved a lot of headache, and perhaps my life. I wanted to do it MY way, not HIS way. And it almost cost me this time. I really did hear him say all of those words. When you are a believer and you are in His word, you can hear him speak to you. I was just stubborn. What a mistake!

(2) The Bible talks specifically about not having false-Gods/idols, and putting those before God.

Deuteronomy 5:7 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Don't get me wrong, our passion for cars is not a bad thing, and I don't mean to condemn anyone on here but myself. Cars are cool. But lately, I think it's fair to say I've been going a little overboard.

So, I didn't listen, and finally, God had to shout to me to get His point across. But look at how he did it, and with what incredible grace and mercy! Seven bolts left, and he whispered for me to pull over. This time, fortuantely, I did listen! And I could have pulled over earlier. But, there wouldn't have been a Home Depot with helpful people and the correct tools, and a straight/even and empty parking lot at the Chevy dealership. And a Sheetz gas station with free air for the tires in the parking lot next door. His timing was perfect for the whole thing. Really, I was blessed.

So, I learned a lot more than red vs. blue loctite. My hope is that some of you might gain some insight throgh my experience as well...

Man, I give you alot of credit for talking about your faith! I have been in the same sittuation as you. You try so hard to make everything perfect so the car looks nice for the event but bad/crazy things keep on happening. This is when we need to learn to listen to God and not do it our way. Easy to say, but hard to do! My wife and I fight about the time I spend working on my CRX, so I know what you mean. Seems like when you have a wife/kids there is just never enough time for your own hobbies or projects. I have a hard time trying to find a balence beetween the two. Reading your post makes me realize that I need to get back to church at least three Sunday's a month. Thanks for sharing and take it easy.

Jay V.