50 replies to this topic

[MrDisibility]

Good news! I found someone to make hoods for us again!


Bad news. We gotta start all over again.



I have found that what we tuners conventionally refer to as "carbon fiber" is really crap. In the CF industry, "CF" hoods from tuners like VIS and Siebon garbage and an embarrassment to the REAL CF community. Apparently the CF industry has gotten to the point where you can either make effective parts (light weight and strong) or cosmetic ones (CF hoods). If you try and cross over, you are in for a big surprise. I was awakened when I went to one producer who builds really nice custom parts with my molds and he told me the hoods were going to cost me $800, and there would be no latch, hinge, etc. But it would be light as a feather and unbelievably strong. Oh, and it would not look nice either. When I suggested compromise on the function in favor of lowering cost he practically kicked me out. Furthermore, I have found a couple people locally who make cosmetic parts and the quality is shaky at best. With such a low volume item and for a car that is so near and dear to me, I can't compromise on quality THAT much. The ones we were having made before were the lowest quality I would consider going with, and I can't find anyone to match that. And NOBODY can meet the prices I was getting before, so we cannot sell the hoods for the same price as before, better or not. My head hurts. So....that is what I have dealt with over and over here.


I caught up with a friend of mine who used to do lay up on Toyota Atlantic cars to see if he could help me. He made a FG hood for me to test out my molds and it turned out pretty nice but he told me he would not make any more for me. They simply take too long to make. His quality was the main reason for the time, but the problem is, again, we cannot compromise on quality. The problem also lies in the under-frame. Conventional practice for this type of product is to copy the stock framework and glue it to the top layer, just like the stock hood. This method works great when you have a huge press to do the stamping and trimming for you, but when you are laying up in a mold forming the material in all the cracks and crevices, trimming material, then hand-gluing the frame to the hood the process is way too time consuming.


Conventional hood construction is a wet-layup. A mold is coated with resin, carbon fabric is laid over the resin, more resin is put on, and then the thing is set out to dry. It is cheap easy, prone to defects (hence the need for many makers to "grade" their hoods), and not very light relative to what a carbon piece should be. Basically, a lit of resin is used to suspend the fabric. When this part is then polished up you get that "pretty CF look that we are so familiar with. Molds are generally simpler and less accurate making for a less accurate part in the end. "Rolled edges" are used to mask fitment defects and give the perception of a better looking part. The resin also tends to get oxidized and cloudy when subjected to UV rays from the sun.

Dry lay up is different. The dry carbon fabric material is put in a mold and just enough resin is added to saturate the fabric. The whole thing is then bagged and subjected to a vacuum in order to completely impregnate the fabric with resin. Excess resin is sucked away. Many times the hood is then cured in a pressure cooker to further compress the material. What you are left with is strong, light, and the weave is perfect because it is not suspended in the resin. The look is rather flat in sheen so it is not typically as good looking as a wet hoods with that "wet look." However dry carbon parts are MUCH better for painting, which means the beautiful carbon look can be attained by simply clear-coating the surface. Dry carbon parts are what real race cars are made out of. Dry carbon needs a faction of the bracing of a wet part because it is so much stronger.





Now, what does all this mean to us? We want hoods, no doubt. And there are two ways to get them.


The solution to our problem is either:

1- Get another company to mass produce shitty hoods that have bubbles, wavy weave, mediocre fit, and excess weight for $380-400.
2- Go though my buddy and produce the hoods in DRY CARBON! for about $500-520.


I think you know what way I want to go.


The Dry hoods would be single layer CF, vacuum bagged for real, legit CF parts. Super strong, even stronger than the steel hood. The glued-on OEM frame would be ditched in favor of an integrated custom frame. The minimal amount of material would be used to reinforce the hood and provide mounts for integrated latch and hinges. The entire hood would weigh in the neighborhood of 4-5 lbs, versus the 12-15 lbs. of the previous hood.

I need to make new molds though because the molds we have are suitable for wet layup but will crack when put under vacuum. That means, I need 10 solid prepaid orders! That is PER HOOD, US or ZC style. I need 10 of EACH to get them both made. Personally, I want to run the flat hood. I know lots of you want ZC ones tho.

Fiberglass is available for $420. Construction is the same as the CF hood! My FG hood will be superior to the existing CF options!


So, are there 10 of us that want to buy a $500 CF hood or a $400 FG hood?


Marcus

[wyclefcupcake]

Fiberglass is available for $420. Construction is the same as the CF hood! My FG hood will be superior to the existing CF options!
So, are there 10 of us that want to buy a $500 CF hood or a $400 FG hood?
Marcus

i was actually going to post today asking about the 1 piece hoods

you know i want one, def a CF hood. it would be nice to get the ZC one piece but at this point i really almost dont care because
i am so sick of my stupid header panels breaking all the time.

this new process sounds cool but i would still rather have a CF than a FG hood because i know slamming the hood down
millions of times, the CF would hold up better than the FG i can imagine.

anyway i'd want a 1 piece CF hood (hopefully ZC) but the question is how long will it take to get these?

[MrDisibility]

i was actually going to post today asking about the 1 piece hoods

you know i want one, def a CF hood. it would be nice to get the ZC one piece but at this point i really almost dont care because
i am so sick of my stupid header panels breaking all the time.

this new process sounds cool but i would still rather have a CF than a FG hood because i know slamming the hood down
millions of times, the CF would hold up better than the FG i can imagine.

anyway i'd want a 1 piece CF hood (hopefully ZC) but the question is how long will it take to get these?

Erase your imagination on this issue. The ONLY advantages of going with CF are weight savings ans looks.

The time will depend on how long it takes for me to get 10 people prepaid. Turn around once we have the orders is about 4-6 weeks.


Keep in mind, I am making ZERO dollars on this deal!!!! Which means I am actually losing money after we count the time it is taking me to deal with it.

Marcus

[funkmaster]

Marcus, are you still doing OEM length hoods?
I have the Houseman repro now, and cant use a 1-piece. that is unless you want to make a MUGEN length 1-piece!!

I am interested in an OEM length ZC FG hood.

[MrDisibility]

Marcus, are you still doing OEM length hoods?
I have the Houseman repro now, and cant use a 1-piece. that is unless you want to make a MUGEN length 1-piece!!

I am interested in an OEM length ZC FG hood.

We could do either one I believe.

Marcus

[85supersleeper]

does that mean if we can find 10 people to do cf sedan hoods that you'd get them made??? im walking out on a limb here but its worth a try! to my understanding, the hatch and the sedan have different shape and size hoods. if they were the same that'd be even better!!!

[604_Crx]

Ship to Canada this time?
Would there be the possibility of getting them clear coated for an extra fee?

[MrDisibility]

Ship to Canada this time?
Would there be the possibility of getting them clear coated for an extra fee?

Yes and yes, although I have no estimate on shipping cost yet. I think it will be a little less than before.

[EuphoricBlue]

I would love to have one, but it's out of my price range for the time being (student loans).

But Might I make a suggestion?

Have them put a bit more effort into it in designing the frame so that a 1 piece hood could be cut to make an OEM length hood and a header panel. That way you make 10x1piece hoods, and the couple people that need OEM length for the Mugen kit, or the ones that want the sleeper look, could (carefully) cut the hood themselves.

[MrDisibility]

does that mean if we can find 10 people to do cf sedan hoods that you'd get them made??? im walking out on a limb here but its worth a try! to my understanding, the hatch and the sedan have different shape and size hoods. if they were the same that'd be even better!!!

Sure, why not.

[cahender]

Marcus..I'm real interested! Put me down for hood (C/F) number 2. No ZC bump.
Thanks...Wayne

[DEIVIONCRX]

I dont have a 1g, but If i was buying one id rather have the Dry CF, because it is so much stronger and lighter than the typical CF shit out there. Theres a point to actualy putting the hood on the car.

[katulu]

id want one, but, unfortunately, I just closed on my house, I'd have to scratch together the cash now lemmie see what I can do

[RARECRX]

will they be rolled-edge design instead of straight cut? and these are for the ONE-PIECE right? (sorry if I missed it)

[importzero]

well it sounds like the dry carbon is worth it, well marcus u can count me in that 3 , no zc style 1 piece regular