18 replies to this topic

[OG Wagon]

Why did I do it? We'll, I just did the Teg swap on the FRONT of the car (not the rear, b/c I understand from many people that the disk conversion will NOT work for my 4WD wagon). I heard everyone talking about Teg prop valves with this swap, so I thought it was just part of the deal.

I have:

New Teg front calipers/rotors with new Ceramic pads
Stock Civic drums in rear w/ new semi-mettalic pads
New '85 Lude MC
Teg prop valve

Everything is working GREAT. The car is stopping much faster now, and the brake feel is excellent; it catches high with no spongy feel.

However, in my build thread, someone mentioned that I did not need the Teg prop valve, since I didn't do the drum-to-disk conversion in the rear. Whops!

So, I am asking if I am OK to : (1) just keep it there for a while (like, till this Summer), or (2) just not even worry about ever changing it at all, or (3) do I need to change it IMMEDIATELY (it's terribly dangerous for some reason).

I am hoping to AX a bit with the wagon (just for fun) this summer. I feel like the car now brakes well enough to do so.

Some people say I am fine with this set-up. Others are afraid I have TOO much pressure to the drums now, and my rear brakes may lock up, sending me into a tree or something!

So, am I OK, or should I switch back to the Civic prop valve immediately?

Thanks, DT

[icebox187]

yeh, i personally think you should have left the drums at the factory setting (old prop valve) the teg prop valve is balanced for the disk brake contact area and dynamics whereas the crx/civic is made for drum dynamics and contact area.... although you do have more contact area up front... take it in a big wide open parking lot and ensure the front locks up before the back, if it does its probably not a big deal, the danger comes from the back wheels losing traction before the front

[OG Wagon]

So, can anyone else confirm rather the Teg prop valve has MORE pressure to the rear drums or LESS pressue, and which of these two would cause the rears to lock up.

I would like to keep the Teg prop valve if it SAFELY sends more pressure to the front brakes. This is why I installed the valve in the first place. I was trying to beef up the front brakes, as the wagon (especially the 4WD) is a good bit heavier than the hatchbacks, and the stocks brakes are REALLY sub-par for my vehicle weight. I THINK I have done that, but want to be safe about it.

Obviously, if the Teg prop valve does not beef up the front brakes any more than the Civic prop valve, than it is useless, and I should just switch back.

Sorry to be annoyingly redundant in asking this question. I'm trying to use the search tool, and have found no info. through it. Also, I'm just lazy, and don't want to have to switch prop valves and bleed again, to be honest. Such a pain!

[kaymo]

i dont think it would have too much effect on the front brakes. come on over i'll help you bleed the bastards again myself

and then you can help me bleed my crx lol

[OG Wagon]

i dont think it would have too much effect on the front brakes. come on over i'll help you bleed the bastards again myself

and then you can help me bleed my crx lol

Ha, ha! Thanks for the invite. I'm hoping to get up there for the meet. However, it looks like Mothers Day Weekend (apparently) has already been booked for a beach trip. So, I'm (more than likely), not going to be able to make it.

Sorry dude.

[pvbcrx]

Good question. I seem to recall a thread where someone mentioned that rear discs require less brake fluid to operate than the original drum brakes. If that were the case, then using a disc/disc Teg prop valve on a 3G disc/drum setup would cause the rear drums to be less likely to lock up.

However, looking at the relative piston sizes of a rear drum's wheel cylinder and a rear disc's piston - the wheel cylinder is considerably smaller. Even though a wheel cylinder has two internal pistons (one for each shoe), I betcha the total actuated area is still less than the disc piston. Drum brakes have considerable mechanical advantage built into the design, so you don't need to push on shoes as hard as you do on a disc to get the same braking power. If this is the case, then using a disc/disc Teg prop valve will cause your wagon's rear drums to be more likely to lock up.

If a parking lot test like icebox187 has suggested doesn't reveal anything squirrelly, you're probably okay in the interim. If it were me I'd swap in the proper disc/drum proportioning valve the next time I was working on the car, just to be safe in the long run.

Just brainstorming - I'm sure someone smarter than me knows the true answer.

[kedwards]

In the olden days (before my time), brakes were adjusted by driving down a dirt road, slamming on the brakes, and measuring the lengths of the tire marks.

Keith, who hasn't actually tried this...

[kaymo]

kedwards, i thought you WERE from the olden days! like scott! lol

cmon ked i figured you would have an answer for the boy!

[crxls]

my understanding is that if you do a rear disc swap and still keep the civic prop valve you will have issues with the rear's locking up. it takes a great deal more pressure to properly work a drum setup than a disc because the disc design is way more efficient

[OG Wagon]

Thanks for everyones replies. It seems that this question posses a really tough answer. Hopefully this thread can enlighten others that might have also thought that changing to Teg front brakes oONLY would require the installation of the Teg prop valve.

I'll swap back to the Civic prop valve just as soon as I get a chance. I hate doing brake work, I must admit. I'm also tired and lazy from working so hard on the brake system this past week. However, I'm more concerned about safety than I am lazy!

Thanks again to all.

[PuddleSkipper]

A couple questions of a different nature

1. The wagon 4X4 axle looks like it has the same 4 bolt pattern that the civic has, why won't the rear teg brakes swap over?

2. If you can't convert to rear disc brakes on the wagon 4X4, could you convert to a smaller drum size? It would be less resistance, however if one did a front brake teg swap and most of the braking is done in the front anyway.............

[icebox187]

Back from the dead eh? Take some measurements around the mounting holes for the spindles and also the e brake cable, if people have told you that you can't do it those and  the spindle base mount are the only things that i can think of that wouldn't allow you to swap. 

[Madkore]

Actually, the easiest way to adjust rear drum brakes is to back up and slam on the brakes.
This will force the star adjuster wheel to move, and adjust/tighten the rear brakes.

Do this until you can only pull up the handbrake lever 3 - 5 clicks.

 

We would do this at the dealers during test drives.

MK, who has done this dozens of times.

[chedda_j]

Nice hint Madkore. the piston size on the rear disc brakes is much larger than the wheel cylinder, I would assume that you would need more pressure to apply the brake. I would stick with the old valve or go with one from a prelude ect. 

[PuddleSkipper]

I do like tacking on to old post before starting new ones!

 

Maybe I didn't ask clearly enough, why specifically can't the teg rear disc conversion be done? and the reason for at least converting to the smaller drum is due to economy, Wagon 4wd drums are ridiculously big, expensive, with limited producers..........only a matter of time till they are discontinued.