Red Pepper Racing

OK, I'm stymied...just finished install on all new flywheel, pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing and cable in the CRX (stock '86 DX).

It's all buttoned back up and the clutch WONT DISENGAGE even with all the freeplay removed from the cable at the actuating lever. I know that:

• the disc is installed flat side facing the flywheel
• Pressure plate installed correctly and according to specs in the FSM
• release lever, spring and throwout bearing were greased and working correct and smoothly just prior to reattachment of transmission
• transmission lined right up and slid onto locating dowels and tight to engine on the first try (a definite first for me!)
• I verified as best I can that the parts purchased/used ARE correct for the application
• I have a sometimes sound similar to a spline that is not engaged fully but I verified that both cv axles are completely seated in the differential and both wheels rotate smoothly while running in 1st gear (on jackstands)
• Upon removal and inspection, the pedal assembly is completely intact with no bends, broken metal or welds. actually looks amazing for 200k+ mileage...but I'm going to reinforce it anyway while it's out!

The whole shebang is coming back apart to try and locate the problem. I welcome any thoughts anyone might be able to offer on this so, thanks in advance!

 

So...I tore it apart and found that,very obviously, the clutch disc springs are rubbing on the back side of the pressure plate spring fingers, thus accounting for the noise heard!  There are no apparent problems with the clutch fork,return spring or actuating lever. Everything slides smoothly and I verified that the new release bearing is the same in all ways as the old one. The clutch disc splines match the input shaft splines exactly and the kit it is from (a "LUK" part number 08_005 from Rockauto) is listed as correct for the 1G CRX application on the LUK website. I'm at a loss as to how to rectify this problem...anyone?

Picture of the new pressure plate upon removal:

http://i260.photobuc...-15-13_1029.jpg

 

Skip

Edited by GeezRX, 15 June 2013 - 11:36 AM.

You might check the shift fork going from the cable into the tranny i snapped one mid shift and it acted the same as what you are describing

Did you get the right parts? Might sound like a stupid question, but it happens more than most like to admit. Make sure the teeth on the input shaft fit the disk.

I have heard of the clutch fork wearing out. In the center of the fork is a divit used for a pivot, The divit wears out until it no longer has enough travel to dissengage the clutch.

bump...thanks for the replies so far...please see edited original post on current situation!

OK folks...I'm really in a bind here and need to get this thing back up and going. Will call LUK customer service in the morning and see if they can point me towards a possible solution, but if anyone here can offer knowledgeable assistance, I would VERY much appreciate it! I've gone over everything I can think of and am drawing a blank as to how to proceed.

 

Skip

Hmm. There is supposed to be freeplay in the clutch cable . It is not supposed to be adjusted tight at all... try loosening it up.  the only things I can think is "wrong part" throwout bearing stuck to the pressure plate  etc... start by loosening the clutch cable. 

 

When I first did my 85 si like 20 years ago. "my first change" i tightened it all the way with no play and it would not go in any gears . clutch was engaged. So I took it all apart , back togeteher tightened it again and it did the same thing.. Then I loosened it up with about 1/2" freeplay and it worked . never had one stick since. 

That's part of what is frustrating. Upon reassembly the first time I had the freeplay adjusted as per the FSM and it would not disengage so I gradually decreased the freeplay until it was nonexistent and it still wouldn't disengage. This is totally backwards to me since as I see it, with NO freeplay it should be disengaged all the time, right? Also tried it with a brand new cable and got the same result. Checked the new release bearing against the old one and it is exactly the same.

Skip

New PP and friction disc?  Have you tried measuring the old parts and new parts in the interference area to see what the differences are in the parts?

 

Kirk

New PP and friction disc?  Have you tried measuring the old parts and new parts in the interference area to see what the differences are in the parts?

 

Kirk

 

Don't have any sophisticated means to do this. Using a straightedge and tape measure there are no significant differences. Checked with LUK tech services this morning and was told that the rep set I purchased from Rockauto.com is some kind of a knockoff since they are not an authorized distributor for LUK products. Said they had seen this before - other product housed in their packaging - said also that the Aisin branded pressure plate inside definitely proved it. He was nice enough to offer up the thought that he felt the problem centered around the new flywheel and a possible "stack height issue". I ran down the part numbers listed on the parts in the LUK kit and the Sachs flywheel and they all show valid for the '86 1G CRX 1.5L application. I bought the new flywheel assuming it would be ready to go out of the box...not needing any machine work done to it! My old CRX flywheel is questionable and the price for the new one was less than I paid for resurfacing on one I used in my Civic hatch recently. The "step" dimension on both the old and new flywheels appears to be about .125 inches using a straight edge/tape measure. I can't find any noticeable differences on parts, nor can I find any specifications in the FSM pertaining to stack height. I'll be discussing this with Rockauto customer service tomorrow but don't expect that they will be any help. Thanks for the input from all so far.

 

Skip

When you are looking at the back sides of the pressure plate splines there is a groove - what is that hitting against?  The springs on the friction disc?

 

Kirk

 

When you are looking at the back sides of the pressure plate splines there is a groove - what is that hitting against?  The springs on the friction disc?
 
Kirk

 
Yes, I can see the slight brush marks on the disc springs where it is rubbing and the diameter of the groove on the pressure plate spring backs is the same as the diameter of the center of the friction disc spring circle.
I mounted this new pressure plate and disc onto my old flywheel and can see that there is very little space between the disc springs and the pressure plate springs. Since I now know that this LUK kit I was sold is not in fact a genuine LUK kit, I have a feeling the issue lies in the fact that the new friction disc IS a LUK branded part but the new pressure plate is in fact an Aisin branded part and not a LUK part as the LUK tech stated it should be. Am I correct in thinking that,even though both parts are correct for the application,since they are from two different manufacturers there could likely be enough discrepancy to cause this problem? In the past all the clutches I have replaced have been "matched" sets, both pressure plate and friction disc made by the same manufacturer.

Skip

I would compare the old friction disc to the new one and measure the height if the springs - it sounds like that may the the difference?  I have mixed and matched friction discs and pressure plates from various manufacturers and have not had a problem before so I am really curious to find out what your issues are.

 

Kirk

Well, I contacted Rockauto customer service and,although they wouldn't own up to anything, they agreed to check stock and find a clutch kit with all LUK branded parts in it. I returned the original kit and then received not 1 but 2 new kits from them! One kit was exactly the same as the one I returned and one in fact did have all LUK branded parts. The space between pressure plate face and clutch disc springs when mounted on my old flywheel on the bench seemed greater than with the original kit, so I mounted this kit and put it all back together and there is no rubbing of disc springs on the back of the diaphragm springs but...it still won't disengage entirely! With the freeplay on the cable at FSM specs the pedal still has little resistance and goes almost to the floor before any disengagment begins and of course the release point is also just off the floor. The new ATP cable (Y-317) is correct (if in fact it is not some other cable put into the correctly marked box) and I compared it to the old cable visually and it seems comparable. I will play with cable length and adjustment to see what that brings. The LUK tech said he felt like it was likely an issue with the new flywheel. I wonder now if a flywheel shim would rectify this problem? Can't imagine why I would need one on a new, un-resurfaced flywheel? Wish I could figure this out! Wish I could get all oem Honda parts! Wish I could afford to take it to the shop and let them figure it out!

 

I putzed around with this most of the day. Increased, decreased free play on the cable with little to no positive effect. "Shortened" the cable with a temporary sleeve and this did nothing. Removed the cable and compared it to two old cables that previously were in use and there is virtually no difference between new and old. Checked pedal assembly AGAIN and I can find no issues whatsoever. Release arm has about 1-3/16 inch of movement (with no cable attached)before It comes up against the plate springs...don't know if this is within normal specs or not? I have absolutely no idea what else to do short of adding a flywheel shim(?). Will adding a .025 shim make a significant enough difference to fix this? This shouldn't be this diffucult...and I'm sure when (IF) I figure this out it will be something ridiculously simple!

Edited by GeezRX, 02 July 2013 - 06:30 PM.

Just going out on a limb here but, 

Did you get the ears of the T/O bearing on TOP or BELOW the fork 'tangs'?

Are the little spring ends IN the T/O ears

Got into a same situation years ago where i put the ears on TOP of the fork tangs and it pushed it out too much, and even with the cable OFF, it wouldn't work.

OR

Did they send the T/O bearing and YOU had to press it on sleeve? or was it all assembled?

If it came 'assembled', They may have left a little "more to go" on the sleeve, and might need to be pressed on a little more.

 

Do you still have the OLD PARTS? 

 

E