36 replies to this topic

[PacerRacerGirl]

Okay since I am thinking about prepping Mouse for SCCA Street Prepared class next year and have the suspension pretty well planned out, (I think) I would like input from you guys on how to get around 130 HP within the rules. (Crank HP, not wheel)

The rules:

*Intake: Unrestricted
*Exhaust: Unrestricted other than must have one and be able to meet the sound requirements for the event that I'm competing in and terminate behind the driver. (Two of our sites have 91 dB at 50 ft limit)
*Ignition: Unrestricted
*Clutch: Any
*Flywheel: Unrestricted.
*Overbore engine: .0472 in over standard max.
*Compression: Stock
*Engine internals: Stock, may be balanced but not lightened.
*Camshaft: Stock
*Head: May be milled .010. Intake and Exhaust may be matched provided there is no change beyond 1" beyond the port/manifold face.
*Pulleys: Unrestricted
*Emission controls: May be removed.

Forced induction is prohibited unless the car came stock with it!!! (So don't even suggest turbo! )

Thanks and ... Let the bench racing begin!

PS, my other option is to prepare it to IT specs and then run in Street Prepared, but no mixing of the two rulesets is allowed!

Edited by PacerRacerGirl, 04 July 2003 - 11:57 AM.

[Airjockie]

Start off with a set of tuned 45/40DCOE's (weber), and strip the interior out....
See if the DC Sport's Header is availible still, (I might have one for sale soon)
Get the MSD 6AL, and a blaster coil, Accell 300+ thundersport wires,
ACT Heavy Duty Pressure plate, and disk,
lighten the flywheel 20%, and get the Phantom Grip LSD.....(if LSD is leagal for the class)
Gasket match the intake/exhaust port's,
and trim out the door's.....remove as much weight as possible, but still remain's structurally sound.

[PacerRacerGirl]

Ah I forgot to mention ... cannot strip the interior. (I could if I went the IT route, but less engine modifications are allowed) I already have a ceramic coated header. (Not on the car yet)

LSD's are allowed and I plan on getting one. I have heard mixed reviews about the Phantom grip, so still haven't decided.

So given what I've posted above, and not including anything else, what can I do...?(If it isn't written specifically ... it's illegal)

[All4AMD]

i also have an ew but im going to put a ported and polished SI head with oversized cam. How much does all this cost? MSD 6AL, and a blaster coil, Accell 300+ thundersport wires

[brekekex]

Definitely go with a proper mechanical LSD (no viscous coupling types, if there is even such an option). I likewise have heard very mixed reviews about the Random Grip. I have used an OEM Viscous type LSD, as well as an OEM Torsen type. There was a night and day difference between the two (in favour of the Torsen type)... the behaviour on the track was: point and shoot.

Are you allowed to change the cam?

-Tomo

[PacerRacerGirl]

The rules:

*Intake: Unrestricted
*Exhaust: Unrestricted other than must have one and be able to meet the sound requirements for the event that I'm competing in and terminate behind the driver. (Two of our sites have 91 dB at 50 ft limit)
*Ignition: Unrestricted
*Clutch: Any
*Flywheel: Unrestricted.
*Overbore engine: .0472 in over standard max.
*Compression: Stock
*Engine internals: Stock, may be balanced but not lightened.
*Camshaft: Stock
*Head: May be milled .010. Intake and Exhaust may be matched provided there is no change beyond 1" beyond the port/manifold face.
*Pulleys: Unrestricted
*Emission controls: May be removed.

In other words, no I cannot change the cam or any of the valvetrain. (Essentially I can't change any of the engine internals.)

[Krispy]

If CSP is the plain then i hope you and mouse are prepared to open the wallet. First things first. Get a real LSD, not random grip.

Tear the motor to the ground and rebuild it maximizing the allowences to the rules, that is, larger pistons, shaved head. You may want to balance everything too but generally honda engines are very good.

It sounds like you can run the exhust out the side of the car as long as it exits behind driver. Doesn't sound too hard and should save some wieght. Not sure about your sound restrictions.......... Anyway, make sure your cat is removed and use some nice 2" or 2.25" stainless piping.
What kind of header do you have?

intake, this is where you are gonna make all your power. Forget the webbers, they are fine for regional stuff but if you want the all out national car you better start looking at some TWM Preformence fuel injection setup. I've heard of people getting as much of 15 more hp over the webbers.
heres a nice little picture.


Cam gear, not sure if its allowed or not.......? You may find some hp on the dyno. Yes be prepared to spend some money on dyno time.

One last thing is using the update back dateing rules. I really can't remember if this applys to miz matching engine components. If you can do this then put a cdn DX head on your SI bottom end. Actually, i don't think you can do this since it would raise compression...........hmmmm
But i am pretty sure you can use the update/backdate rule to put a SI engine into a DX shell. This would save you alot of wieght.


Have a look at Steve Mieritz setup, this is your example of a car optimized to the CSP rules.



Hopefully that will give you some idea's. Try talking to Steve M some time, i spoke with him a few months ago about a bunch of stuff and he seems like a pretty cool guy. He used to be on this board, user name CSP137 i believe, try sending him a e-mail.

[All4AMD]

i also have an ew but im going to put a ported and polished SI head with oversized cam. How much does all this cost?  MSD 6AL, and a blaster coil, Accell 300+ thundersport wires

anyone?

[PacerRacerGirl]

If CSP is the plain then i hope you and mouse are prepared to open the wallet. First things first.  Get a real LSD,  not random grip.

Tear the motor to the ground and rebuild it maximizing the allowences to the rules,  that is, larger pistons, shaved head.  You may want to balance everything too but generally honda engines are very good. 

It sounds like you can run the exhust out the side of the car as long as it exits behind driver.  Doesn't sound too hard and should save some wieght.  Not sure about your sound restrictions..........          Anyway, make sure your cat is removed and use some nice 2" or 2.25" stainless piping.
What kind of header do you have?

intake,  this is where you are gonna make all your power. Forget the webbers,  they are fine for regional stuff but if you want the all out national car you better start looking at some TWM Preformence fuel injection setup.  I've heard of people getting as much of 15 more hp over the webbers.

Cam gear, not sure if its allowed or not.......?  You may find some hp on the dyno. Yes be prepared to spend some money on dyno time.

One last thing is using the update back dateing rules.  I really can't remember if this applys to miz matching engine components.  If you can do this then put a cdn DX head on your SI bottom end.  Actually, i don't think you can do this since it would raise compression...........hmmmm

In SCCA Street Prepared there are virtually no internal modifications allowed to the engine. Therefore cams, larger pistons etc are not allowed. The only thing that is allowed internally is balancing and first standard overbore.

Also anything put on the car under the UD/BD rule must be replaced as a unit. If I were to put a DX head on it, I'd also have to put the block and all other accoutrements with it. Also anything UD/BD must have been a U.S. spec part. If it didn't come on U.S. cars, it is strictly not allowed. (So no Canadian spec head!)

I plan on having the exhaust come out behind the passenger. The header I have is a ceramic coated 4-2-1, however one of the tubes isn't equal length with the others. Cam gears are not allowed. (At this time ... the SEB is considering allowing them)

The shop that sponsors me can get me Minkuni carbs at cost. (Shhh, don't tell anyone I said that!)

It might not be possible to get 130 crank HP out of Mouse under these rules, but I've heard it can be done.

My plan:
Header to 2" pipe with 18" glasspack terminating in front of the passenger side rear wheel.
Minkuni carbs. (Don't know much about them though, it's good thing I know a bunch of guys who do!)
Lighten flywheel
Mugen or Quaife LSD. (This is a stumbling block, a huge amount of money at one time)
Junk the emissions controls.
Stand alone ignition system. (Though I don't know what, or how)

This probably won't get me 130 HP, but it should help in the power department a lot.

All of this is dependant on money, and I am going to get the suspension stuff done first. (If I can't afford to do it right, then I'll probably go into STS for next year)

One of the things I was wondering about was whether to go with carbs or a Prelude TB. Which would develop more HP?

[Airjockie]

MSD 6AL, and a blaster coil, Accell 300+ thundersport wires

$150 USD, $55, and around $60


I have heard the coil and the 6AL is what would bolt on dirrectly to the engine, with little or few modification's....and I know from personal experiance that the thundersport's are the best wire's to get.....they have 150 ohm's resistance per foot, compared to the 9,000 ohm/p/ft the stock wire's have.....less risistance to the plug, the faster and cleaner the spark.

[dacollier1]

TEC3 engine mgt system to handle both the ignition and your TWM (or Haltech) fuel injection system (I agree that carbs are good for HP, but FI is going to provide a better combination of torque and solid HP numbers.. Seems to work very well for the winners I used to see at east coast divisionals (except that was when it was a TEC1). Look for an alloy flywheel also. I think Paeco has them in the Atlanta area (but I'm sure you can find them cheaper than that). using a light alloy flywheel made a large difference in my old C Prepared MG. Wasn't enough weight to make it idle smooth, but it went great off idle.
Quife is the way to go if you can find one.
I agree with the 2" exhaust. Anything larger and you lose torque, which is more important for autocross than HP is.

We'll be looking for you to get another photo in Sports Car.

[Krispy]

It looks like you are well on your way


PS, you should be able to get the stock flywheel down to around 10-11lbs from 20 or 21lbs. If you push your luck a little maybe 8 or 9......

Not sure if anybody makes a good allow FW for our cars, newer D series ones will not work, they utilize a pilot bearing while we don't.

[LEW]

hey pace, my idea was to get a exsaust bypass y pipe. it's a fitting that goes behind the cat and Y's. so with a pull of a lever or flip of a switch you go from stock (or to the rear exsaust) to open cat, yeeeeeooooww. that's what i'm talkin about. if you wanted to hush that abit then get a 18" glass pack and let it outlet near the pass ft tire

Edited by LEW, 07 July 2003 - 08:07 AM.

[B17CRX]

*Overbore engine: .0472 in over standard max.
*Compression: Stock
*Head: May be milled .010. Intake and Exhaust may be matched provided there is no change beyond 1" beyond the port/manifold face.

I hate SCCA rules, they are always conflicting... The engine's Compression ratio must remain stock; however, a .040 overbore and a .010 head mill is allowed. Increasing piston diameter and milling the cylinder head both increase the static compression ratio.

A .040" overbore is pretty big (first overbore is .010" ie .25mm). I suggest doing both the largest allowed overbore and the head mill, as you will need every advantage allowed on your quest for 130....

-Joel