85 replies to this topic

[JeepGirl]

no, i think it goes something like the bigger the rim, the more rotational mass do to centrifugal force of the anti-matter stream pushing the flux capacitor beyond its spec'd limits

[squareback]

If big rims & rubber band tires were better wouldn't that be what autocrossers, drag racers & F1 used?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner.

If you will read the article again, you will note two things: 1) As the wheel diameter increased, the testers noted that acceleration felt sluggish. That's the weight of the wheel coming into play. Shorter sidewalls negatively affected straight-line performance even though cornering seemed to improve, which outweighed the decrease in acceleration. 2) As the wheel diameter increased, so did the width of the tire mounted on it. This was simply because the larger diameters don't have narrow tires available, but it also helps argue why cornering improved. It's not simply because of the lower profile; it's due in part to a wider contact patch.

The overwhelming point that I will make here is this: for our cars, if you are wanting wheels for overall performance, get 13s with R-compounds; if you want a great street size that gives you the best of all worlds, including looks, performance, and tire choices, get 15s; and if you are simply looking for a size that looks the best in your own opinion, get whatever you want and ignore what everyone else thinks.

It's your car; do it the way you want to.

Mike

[JeepGirl]

woah! keep your eye on that guy ^^^ he's a smart one!



good post. and very informative. i never even thought about what racers use. or why.

Edited by JeepGirl, 15 February 2006 - 05:09 PM.

[JeepGirl]

i did know that drag cars use the stock size diameter rims, just wider so they can put wider stickier tires on for a larger contact patch. more contact = more traction but more contact also means more friction. friction = drag and drag slows you down.

Edited by JeepGirl, 15 February 2006 - 05:13 PM.

[terrafox]

I bought 15" wheels with a polished lip for mine. Its 205/55/15 instead of 175/70/13.

* It looks kewl

* Slower accelleration better top

* Better cornering

* Have to take care @ everyside walk parking

---

To top it off has anyone here ever driving the original Mini Cooper©? It has 10" wheels and it flys like a rocket and handles like a go kart.

Continue...

[RARECRX]

basically it comes down to this... ill get my 14lb 17's with the best available street tire ...you get the best available STREET TIRE (not race, not dot) basic available street tire for the 13's at 14lbs... put them on the same car with a neutral driver and i will bet $100 bucks he waxes on the 13"...

Thats what this topic is about! It has nothing to do with COMPETITION TIRES OR RACE TIRES!! all you people dogging on 15", 16", 17" making fun of people because they have "big rims" calling them ricey rims. telling these street guys to put 13's on their car and they will handle like hoosier shod scca cars that run 13x8 with slicks..just because you win with 13x8 slicks doesent mean 13's are the best choice for street cars..!!!!! when we all know 13" tires are limited availability for street use.. Are people so shallow they cant understand this???? 13's are not a good choice for a street crx wanting good handling bottom line..every time i bring up 13's the next reply is always .."well race tires"" well you can get competition tires"..street-to-street availability 17's take the cake...


and no original mini coopers do not fly like rockets LOL.. my dads friend has one.a 1978 1100cc single su carbed.. it feels like it does but it is definately slow! and it has bodyroll like hell..its not modded though..!!! the fast ones are heavily modded and usually run 13" wheels as they can go no larger.. .. but we in our rexes can...

Edited by etmydst, 15 February 2006 - 05:22 PM.

[squareback]

actually if you spin them both at 10 mph the 6 pounds in the 13 inch are traveling at faster RPM's han the 17" big one..not slower. thus being harder to stop right?. if the dumptruck wheel weighed the same as the small wheel and you spin them ..they would be equally easy to spin..but the big dumptruck wheel will be easier to stop because it has less RPM's or velocity... would you want to stop a 36" fan at 10mph or a 5" fan at 10mph? the rpm' would make it seem like 100 mph...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, that is 100% opposite of correct. If 6 pounds of a 13" wheel is in the outer rim, and 6 pounds of a 15" wheel is in its outer rim, the 15" weight has to spin faster.

I think what you are thinking of is revolutions per mile (or whatever distance). We're not talking revolutions per distance; we're talking speed per revolution. Take a moment and visualize it; a larger wheel will have to travel a longer distance per revolution, so the outer rim (where our theoretical 6 pounds is) will travel at a higher rate of speed in the larger wheel. That centrifugal force is harder to stop and accelerate in a larger diameter wheel.

There's nothing left to argue here. Physics will not be overcome by arguing this. It requires less force to change direction of a smaller diameter wheel, which is what makes a smaller wheel a better performance wheel.

Tires are a different matter. Assuming equal width and sidewall height, a tire on a smaller diameter wheel will outperform one on a larger wheel overall. I won't bore you all with the details of this concept if you understand it, but I will be happy to explain it if someone doesn't understand. I'd rather write a novel about it and make sure the truth is out there instead of tons of people giving opinions that have no basis.

Mike

[RARECRX]

..i see your point one more rpm one mor rotational force..Thats what this topic is about! It has nothing to do with COMPETITION TIRES OR RACE TIRES or well if they did make a street tire..!! all you people dogging on 15", 16", 17" making fun of people because they have "big rims" calling them ricey rims. telling these street guys to put 13's on their car and they will handle like hoosier shod scca cars that run 13x8 with slicks..just because you win with 13x8 slicks doesent mean 13's are the best choice for street cars..!!!!! when we all know 13" tires are limited availability for street use.. Are people so shallow they cant understand this???? 13's are not a good choice for a street crx wanting good handling bottom line..every time i bring up 13's the next reply is always .."well race tires"" well you can get competition tires"..street-to-street availability 15" 16" 17's take the cake...

Edited by etmydst, 15 February 2006 - 05:31 PM.

[squareback]

... first he works for koni he sells struts not tires and wheels...second they didnt even mention the brand of tires... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, Lee works for Koni, and they gave the suspension setup some praise. They were also trying to show how the car behaved on a daily basis, which is why they used a daily driver car and made so many comments about the ride quality of the different wheel & tire combos.

Didn't mention the brand of tires? Are you drunk? Did you even read the article? Not only did they mention the brand of tires, but they detailed the construction of them.

Not trying to be an ass, but damn... think before you post.

Mike

[RARECRX]

i love friendly critics...Im not being an ass either but most you know-it-alls (not stating you squareback) that recommend to these kids 13's for street use "ultimite handling capabilities" and that make fun of 15" 0r 16" or 17" wheels..you click on those guys galleries and they themselves have 15" or 16" ricey rims on their cars for street use??? WTF is THAT ABOUT... "hey kid you run 13's cause they are radical but i will run 15" or 16" cause i want to suck ass in the handling department..??" It just boggles my mind ... honestly squareback on street tire availability is 13" the right option for noobs wanting better handling?

Edited by etmydst, 15 February 2006 - 05:41 PM.

[squareback]

basically it comes down to this... ill get my 14lb 17's with the best available street tire ...you get the best available STREET TIRE (not race, not dot) basic available street tire  for the 13's at 14lbs... put them on the same car with a neutral driver and i will bet $100 bucks he waxes on the 13"...

Thats what this topic is about! It has nothing to do with COMPETITION TIRES OR RACE TIRES!! all you people dogging on 15", 16", 17" making fun of people because they have "big rims" calling them ricey rims. telling these street guys to put 13's on their car and they will handle like hoosier shod scca cars that run 13x8 with slicks..just because you win with 13x8 slicks doesent mean 13's are the best choice for street cars..!!!!! when we all know 13" tires are limited availability for street use.. Are people so shallow they cant understand this???? 13's are not a good choice for a street crx wanting good handling bottom line..every time i bring up 13's the next reply is always .."well race tires"" well you can get competition tires"..street-to-street availability 17's take the cake...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's do a theoretical test on a theoretical vehicle. Put 15lb. 13x7 wheels and 205/50R13 tires on one car and 15lb. 17x7 wheels and 205/50R17 tires on another identical car. Throw them on any performance venue (drag, track, autocross, street), and which will win? Same contact patch, same sidewall height, same wheel weight, just different diameter. If you say 17x7 will win, then you are an idiot.

TIME OUT! No one here is making fun of people with big wheels. We're not saying everyone should run around with 13" wheels on their cars. Rather, if someone asks what the best performance wheel/tire combo is, our answer will be the 13". If someone asks for a good street combo, we'd probably suggest a 15". Does that make us shallow? Certainly not.

Street to street availability, as you say, 17's don't take the cake as you suggest. If I had a dedicated street vehicle like ours, there is no way I'd want anything bigger than 15s. You start losing the feel of the road at that point. Is it worth losing road feel in order to get a fraction of a percent of extra grip on a street driven vehicle? No way. Besides, the tire on a 15" wheel should yield a better ride and protection from road debris versus a larger one.

Mike

[squareback]

It just boggles my mind ... honestly squareback on street tire availability is 13" the right option for noobs wanting better handling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I just answered that.

No, 13" is not the best option for the street. I would suggest a 15".

Mike

[squareback]

i love friendly critics...Im not being an ass either but most you know-it-alls (not stating you squareback) that recommend to these kids 13's for street use "ultimite handling capabilities" and that make fun of 15" 0r 16" or 17" wheels..you click on those guys galleries and they themselves have 15" or 16" ricey rims on their cars for street use??? WTF is THAT ABOUT... "hey kid you run 13's cause they are radical but i will run 15" or 16" cause i want to suck ass in the handling department..??" It just boggles my mind ... honestly squareback on street tire availability is 13" the right option for noobs wanting better handling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't fit into this category, since my CRX is a race-only vehicle. But my daily driver is a 1990 Miata, which uses the same tire sizes as our Hondas. The Miata is really sensitive to wheel/tire weight and how it affects handling. What do I run on mine? 15x7 Enkei RP-F1 (9.6 pounds each) and 215/45R15 Toyo T1-R tires. See? 15" wheels for the street!

Mike

[RARECRX]

but just a question...lets say same wheel you described as above 15lb 13's and 15lb 17s..when turning and lets say you load in the front corner at 1000 pounds(theoretically) wont that larger diameter wheel/tire absorb or disperse more of that energy throughout the larger area causing less understeer than a 13" that the force/energy is more concentrated in a smaller area??

Edited by etmydst, 15 February 2006 - 05:56 PM.

[duner]

but just a question...lets say same wheel you described as above 15lb 13's and 15lb 17s..when turning and lets say you load in the front corner at 1000 pounds(theoretically) wont that larger diameter wheel/tire absorb or disperse more of that energy throughout the larger area causing less understeer than a 13" that the force/energy is more concentrated in a smaller area??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the only thing that the diameter of a wheel will do for hadling is allow for more tire options and hence wider tires.....my point is that in straight line accel and decel, a smaller wheel is better. but you could say that the faster accel makes more torque stear and that will effect handling. but this is not my point....again, just accel and decel!