23 replies to this topic

[baxter]

Can I put a black-top head on a brown-top block?

I'm not worried about the electronics or compression (though I'd love to know if it puts compression up or down).

I'd love to hear from anyone who's done or got links...?

[redteg87]

I see no reason why you couldn't.

Go for it.

[Omega Mugen]

How about Brown top head on black top block?

[I3ackfire]

Whats the differences between the 2 heads?

[rexsk8er]

the only difference between the two heads is the mountnig for the dizzy and the cam angle sensor. also i belive the blacktop head flows slightly better. im not 100% percent sure of the 2nd one. other than that there exactly the same and you can interchange them peice of cake. the thing to worry about is the electronics. trust me its a pita.

[shadowboy]

combustion chambers are identical. your compression won't change.

[I3ackfire]

combustion chambers are identical.  your compression won't change.

If that is the case, why would the question even been asked...?

He must be plannin something

[Omega Mugen]

Maybe the head cracked, but he can get another head from the other engine.

[boosted_zc]

with all that said someone chime in on this, if you go to ZC sites like Hybrid Honda they say to use an 88 Prelude head gasket, why would that be if the Integra head is the same.
I have both heads in my garage right now and after measuring a few things they seem to be identical, so why the odd head gasket. Explanation please.....

[Omega Mugen]

If you use the blacktop head, you need to use the blacktop distributer because you can't use the browntop distributer. So, you will have to do additional wiring for the electronic advance diz (Hasport makes/made a harness for this) and use the blacktop ECU. The browntop diz is vacuum advance.

Edited by Omega Mugen, 18 August 2004 - 06:30 PM.

[ChrisF-dude]

I would think as I have heard the differences in block are improved oiling in the black top's block, bumped pistons, and baffled oil pan. The brown top ZC block may have thicker pistons, bad for weight, good for reliability? The blacktop head I think MAY have a we bit hotter cams, better flow, and elecctronic advance. I don't know the difference in intake manifolds though.




P.S. Baxter, can you get me a piece of plastic from NZ? Pretty please?

[baxter]

What I'm planning is a turbo instal....

I'm not worried about electronics as I have a good friend who is an electronics engineer (and knows a fair about about engines etc) who can reprogramme the computer in his sleep - and is very keen to oversee my turbo instal. Lucky me!

We figured things would be far easier with the electronic controled timing off the black-top's dizzy, and planned to install one of these on my brown-top...

And then we thought - hey if the heads are swapable, it would be a lot easier (and cheaper ) than making an adapter plate for the dizzy...

I ask about the compression because one engine has domed pistons and the other doesn't. Depending on where the dome sits I could see a case for either a rasing or lowering of the compression ratio. This would definatly be handy to know in advance, as it could save on having to get a decompression plate made.

I too see that the head gaskets have different numbers - but I have a memory of a site detailing this as a simple swap and how to do it, etc. However, now I need the info, of course I can't find it. Perhaps I dreamed it?

Anyway, thanks for above - I'd still love to hear from anyone who's done this swap, or has links to someone who has.



PS - ChrisF, which particular piece of plastic?

[shadowboy]

with all that said someone chime in on this, if you go to ZC sites like Hybrid Honda they say to use an 88 Prelude head gasket, why would that be if the Integra head is the same.
I have both heads in my garage right now and after measuring a few things they seem to be identical, so why the odd head gasket. Explanation please.....

the 2nd gen uses the 88-91 prelude timing belt. they still use the 86-89 head gasket.

the timing belt is because of the smaller cam pulleys.

[baxter]

the 2nd gen uses the 88-91 prelude timing belt.   they still use the 86-89 head gasket.

the  timing belt is because of the smaller cam pulleys.

Sweet.

So I'll need to use the black top's crank pulley and belt as well, yeah?

Or should I use the brown top's cam pulleys on the black-top's cams instead?

Edited by baxter, 25 August 2004 - 08:04 AM.

[ChrisF-dude]

PS - ChrisF, which particular piece of plastic?

I am looking for the black plastic shroud, that goes in between the clear plastic lense of the digital dash and the overhang of the dash over the guages to help block sun. It screws to the digi dash assy. As far as the black top issue try asking Wilq on this board he has done quite a few swaps, brown top and black top, and rebuilt many. And he has turbo. The brown top has stonger rods I believe, and I thought flat pistons according to what I hear. I would use the stronger rod, and lower compression pistons myself. Also check the Racingchips.com topic. They may have a Mugen program for the ZC PJ1 ECU.