19 replies to this topic

[NurburgRinger]

Hi all,
Lots of tires threads, but none really recent concerning sticky rubber for OEM 14" Si rims.

I'll be redoing my phone dials this winter (ordered two of these kits for post-sand blasting: http://www.autogeek....ration-kit.html ) and replacing the over-the-hill 185/60-14s.

This is a summer only car, about 2000 miles/year, and I'll likely be giving auto-x a try at least once. Suspension is stock TB/springs with new Tokico blues, Addco SB, and new bushings/ball joints.
Like to keep costs low (<$75 each) obviously.

Ideally I'd get a cheap set of 15" rims for auto-x, but that's not an option right now.

There are not many summer-only choices in 185/60-14; Tirerack only list 3:
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec $97
Yokohama AVS ES100 $87
Sumitomo HTR 200 $52 (a few pretty horrible reviews, but decent overall ratings and what a nice price!)
http://www.tirerack....num=96HR4HTR200


If I go 'up' to 195/60-14s there is one addtional option for super-sticky:
Falken AZENIS RT-615K ~$90 (Lymitliss how do you like yours?)
http://www.discountt...f...alse&cs=195

and lots more for 'all season' which I could certainly live with:
BF GOODRICH G Force Super Sport A/S H 86H $69
http://www.onlinetir...Fs h 86h.html
Pretty cheap, but reviews aren't that stellar


Any recommendations, opinions, experiences, current good deals?

I'd also like to have valve stems long enough that I don't have to curse each time I take off the cap.... any recomendations there?

thanks!
Kurt
Milwaukee
1986 CRX Si

[zakats]

J-Man had a thread very similar to this one not long ago, he ended up with my suggestion of the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS pole positions (195-60-14 but is also available in your size) and, as far as I know, loves them. I've had two sets of these (195-60-15 and 205-65-15) both have been brilliant in the dry and even more impressive in the wet.

[Lymitliss]

Thanks for the PM!

As far as tires go, I've only tried a couple different models. I had Barum Bravuris on my phone dials (not expensive, but a very very good tire suprisingly) and Falken Azenis on my Slipstreams.

I would definitley recommend the Azenis' for summer/track tires. I've had mine since the beginning of the year, and probably put 5-10,000 miles on them as my daily driver. As far as driving in any kind of snow, forget about it. They do just fine on wet pavement as long as you obey speed limits!
But as far as I'm concerned they can't be beat on dry pavement by anything less than a racing slick. Noise isn't terrible, but it's hard for me to say as when I bought these tires I went from 14x5.5" to 15x7", so naturally the width increased road noise.
I have yet to hear the tires squeal at all around a corner, but I suppose part of that is how the car is set up, in addition to sticky tires.

I believe it was Honda Tuning where I read the article that stated there had been more cars featured in that magazine running Falken Azenis' than any other tire. Take it for what it's worth, everyone has preferences but I will be replacing them with another set when these wear out

[NurburgRinger]

Thanks guys -

Z: found one J-Man thread where he mentions buying these.

My car will never see snow so was thinking why not go as sticky as my wallet will allow?
But of course maybe some "Ultra HiPo all-season" tires are probably better in the dry than some "HiPo Summer" tires.

What I'm looking at now:
Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS 185/60: $297 shipped from Tirerack
Sumitomo HTR HP Summer 185/60: $258 same
Falken AZENIS RT-615K gumballs 195/60: $370ish (incl a cool dual pressure-balancing tire gauge from Vulcantire.com FWIW)


Lymitliss:

Couldn't find and Barum Bravuris, never even heard of this tire! Doesn't appear to be available in the USA?

Might be tough to justify the extra cash for the Falkens, although I'm sure when I auto-x next year (one or two time max, just for fun) I'll appreciate every bit of traction....
Where did you buy yours BTW, and how much $$?

thanks again!
cheers
Kurt

[E-Man]

J-Man's car is a DD which he uses year round in the Northeast. He switches to snow tires from December to March and has dedicated track tires/rims as well.

Zakats suggestion for the Pole Positions was a great fit for his everyday 8 month usage and I believe he is quite happy with his tires. The Direzza's and Azeni's seem like a good choice if your primary usage will be in good dry conditions and will perform nicely for dual use in an occasional auto-x.

I wouldn't reccommend using the Sumitomo's for auto-x. J-Man tried them once and was unhappy with their performance.

Elliot

[NurburgRinger]

Hey Zakats: I thought those Bridgetone Potenza RE960AS you recommended sounded familar. Checked my Tirerack account and yep. last year I put the same in 205/55R-16 size on my Ferrari!
I really like them. Squeel like crazy on the auto-x course, of course, but overall very predictable and comfortable for 95% street, 5% track. I also like to do open track events, for fun not glory.



Would be kind of cool to have the same tires on both fun cars

I wouldn't reccommend using the Sumitomo's for auto-x. J-Man tried them once and was unhappy with their performance.

Elliot

Thanks Elliot. Why wouldn't you recommend them for auto-x? Couldn't find J-Man's verdict...

I fully realize that any time you ask a tire to do more than one thing (i.e. dry grip, wet grip, snow grip, low noise, long wear, etc) you're making a big compromise.

Good advice here by Scott and squareback (of course the best advice is having multiple sets )
http://www.redpepper...amp;hl=Sumitomo

I actually won't mind auto-xing with non-sticky tires; I probably could have shaved 3 seconds off my 308's auto-x time with cup-type rubber, but considering the suspension (on both 308 and CRX) is set for 90%/10% street/track it's probably not really smart to go with the Sumitomo or Falken "near slick"ish rubber.

[wyatt89]

ive heard good things about the federal 595, they come in a 185-55/14 and are a pretty decent price to here

[E-Man]

Thanks Elliot. Why wouldn't you recommend them for auto-x? Couldn't find J-Man's verdict...

I don't think he ever posted his auto-x experience on the Sumi's. I had a 13" set of 175's mounted on my cf-48's which I lent to him to drive to a local event (~5 miles away). He tried the tires for two or three runs in the first session and experienced difficulties holding lines in turns, especially when pushed. Understandably the width is far from optimal for autoxing but as I recall he mentioned a lack of grip so I assume that he couldn't get the tires to stick even after a few runs.

I'm sure he will chime in when he reads these posts.....

Elliot

[J-MAN]

I'm sure he will chime in when he reads these posts.....

Elliot

I've used two sets of Sumitomo HTR 200 summer tires on my crx and I will say that they were "okay" tires (never bought them by choice, they just happen to come mounted on my old Rikens and E-Man's CF-48's. I used the set on my Rikens (185-60-14) for solely daily driving and they performed just fine for that and that alone. The sidewalls were too soft and had a tendency to roll over during spirited driving, which can be somewhat remedied by bumping up the tire pressure but that sacrificed ride quality on a car that was already uncomfortable to begin with (27mm torsions/450lb coilovers). They had average grip in the dry but felt greasy and I felt the breakaway wasn't very predictable. In the wet they were pretty terrible and made the car feel floaty in heavy rain, there were some times the front end would wash on tighter turns while driving in really wet conditions... not exactly enjoyable or safe IMHO.

My experience on them during an auto-x (I believe they were 175-70-13's) was not satisfactory. It was my first auto-x in the crx (had a couple under my belt from my prior ownership of an EG civic) and I decided to learn the cars limits on street tires first rather than on slicks. The tires proved to be very unpredictable and extremely greasy after a few runs, my guess would be that the suspension overloaded the tires. Regardless the setup wound up being far from ideal. Later that day I switched to slicks after getting fed up with the Sumitomos and the car was much more predictable, I doubt I will attend another event or track day in this car without slicks or R-comps after that experience.

The Bridgestones on the other hand are absolutely fantastic and by far the best street tire I've driven on. When this set wears out I will not hesitate to buy another set for the crx. I was originally looking at the Direzza's or new Azenis but after speaking to Zak as well as a representative at Tirerack I went with the Bridgestones (195-60-14). They are extremely predictable both the rain and dry. Not once have I felt like I've not been in complete control of the car with these tires. Even in standing puddles and heavy rain they handle exceptionally and I noticed a big difference in wet braking with them. In the dry they have an enormous grip for being all seasons and steering response is very direct. It is very easy to drive them up to their limit, beyond, and back without any drama or surprises. Driving the car on street tires has really become more enjoyable. In my experience there are two downsides to the Bridgestones: 1) They are louder than the Sumitomo's they replaced (keep in mind my car is gutted though so it may not be as noticeable in your case) and 2) The sidewalls are very stiff which makes the ride a little harsher. In my opinion the positives of this tire really outweigh the two minor issues, but the end decision is really up to you. After speaking to a representative/tester at Tirerack who had hands on experience with these tires I was extremely surprised to hear that he was actually able to match his auto-x times of the Direzzas with the Bridgestones. That is no small feat as the Direzzas are supposed to be one of the best auto-x street class tires money can buy. He did mention that the Bridgestones will not hold up to prolonged track abuse as well as the Direzzas. This shouldn't be an issue for you if you are occasionally going to use them on the track/auto-x, but ideally the best solution is to have a dedicated set of street as well as a set track tires.

Hopefully my experiences will help you in your decision, but do keep in mind this is just my .02, I would definitely suggest speaking with the experts at Tirerack as they can best assess your situation. If you do decided to get the Bridgestones do take the time to talk to Zakats, he really helped with out with my decision on top of hooking me up out of his own good will. Thanks again Zak!

Jon

[NurburgRinger]

great post Jon - thanks much for taking the time to write that, I'm sure it will help others as well.

Too bad the Sumitomo's aren't better, but that's probably why they're so cheap

Since I may not ever have another 'summer only' car I really just wanted to go as sticky as feasible on the CRX, without sacrificing much 'day-to-day' driveability or paying out the nose for the handful of times I'd really appreciate the extra grip.

In the end it's probably not smart to go with anything other than the Bridgestone Potenzas. Yeah they're far from ideal for auto-x, but on my basically stock suspension running slicks will probably stress it too much anyway and from my one auto-x experience on them with another car I still had a lot of fun despite the relatively low (dry) grip.
BTW - It was pouring rain for the first three runs, so my times were actually much closer to the 'fast' guys than when the track dried out and they could make better use of their power/grip. Like you say the B-stones performed heroically in the wet: sharp turn-in, strong braking, controllable (and very fun!) power-on oversteer, the whole nine yards.

Will give the Tirerack a call to discuss. Maybe I should go with a 55 series instead of 60? The ride height is stock though so don't want it to look any higher...
Maybe TR will take a look at the $2000+ I've spent with them in the past few years and give me a discount. Hell I'll even slap a TR decal on my car next auto-x

cheers!
Kurt

[NurburgRinger]

ive heard good things about the federal 595, they come in a 185-55/14 and are a pretty decent price to here

Thanks Wyatt - pretty nice looking tire. A bit heavier than the B-stones but great price for sure.
You've heard good things specifically about what, their track performance, or street?

cheers
Kurt

[zakats]

I just want to throw out the prospect of moving to 15" wheels- I saw that you said you're not interested in buying a set of wheels but if I may tease you with the idea for a moment:
http://www.tirerack....i...1&tab=Sizes
Deivioncrx can tell you about these and you can read the reviews; from what I understand, they do well enough in the weather and last fairly long for a tire that grips like an R compound.
will easily fit on a set of OEM wheels that can be had for 300-400$ or even a set of rota slipstreams which are very light and effective for ~$500

[NurburgRinger]

Those would be great on a set of 15"s, but right now I don't have the storage space for another set of wheels.
Already storing a set of wheels for the wife's DD (summer/winter) and just don't have room for another.

[Grant Bailey]

I never had the newer version Azenis (RT615) on 14" wheels, but I had the older 215 series and they were absolutely fantastic. Made the car.

I have 15"s on my car now and have used the RT615 Azenis, which was pretty darn good. I have Dunlop Direzza DZ101s on it now and after a few hundred miles break-in they are really good tires, especially in the rain, which makes me think the Star Specs would be even better.

Even without any suspension modifications I would not compromise on your tires - they have a massive impact on how the CRX drives. I had one set of tires with floppy sidewalls on the 14"s (Falken Ziex) and I literally thought they had forgotten to air them up. It was that bad and I actually managed to return them. IMHO anything that does not have a very aggressive sidewall construction is poor economy because you will hate them.

I have had Bridgestone Potenza RE760s (and of course I realize now that's not at all the tire you're asking about but here goes anyway) on my Mazdaspeed 3 and was very disappointed in them. Performance wise they were fine but had terrible wear problems. The 3 has a lot of negative rear camber and and this is what I was told causes it, but they got really lumpy on the inside. When the tires were rotated to the front it makes a shimmy and an awful "woobwoobwoob" at low/moderate speeds. I had the balance and alignment checked at two different dealers and they swore up and down that the car was fine and the tires were to blame. I was told that they were not rotated enough, but I know they didn't go more than 6K without having it done and the stock tires, while not as good in terms of grip and stability exhibited none of these problems even slightly. I couldn't recommend them for this reason. Of course the CRX has zero camber in the rear and the tire size is drastically different but all the same I wouldn't put them on another car.

[zakats]

Those would be great on a set of 15"s, but right now I don't have the storage space for another set of wheels.
Already storing a set of wheels for the wife's DD (summer/winter) and just don't have room for another.

You could always sell a set such as your phone dials, I wouldn't mind having a set of newly restored retro's! Shameless plug: I have a set of "LS mesh" wheels that would do the trick!

Back on topic, this is a good tool to figure out tire dimensions and the difference in tire geometry when considering different combos
http://www.miata.net...e/tirecalc.html