42 replies to this topic

[CRXdan]

1. Dont paint your manifold or turbo. It may look cool on the bench, but your neighbours will hate the smell/smoke, and u wont liek it when the paint turns yellowish white
2. Make sure when you weld in your oil return fitting you set the welder on high voltage and do a thourough weld job. even a tiny hole will leak quite badly.
If youre nto good with welding, drill and tap some holes and use alot of RTV sealent.
3. Dont try to install the oil return fitting without removing the oilpan, shavings WILL get into the bearings
4. When teeing off your oil pressure sender port, use lots of RTV and tighten everything well (not too tight) to prevent leaks. never half ass this part
5. before starting the engine, disconnect the oil drain and crank the car, this will prime the oil system
6. never drive the car without an air filter, it may sound cool, but a tiny pebble that hits the compressor wheel when spinnign at 30 billion rpms will do a ton of damage.

Edited by CRXdan, 06 November 2004 - 11:41 PM.

[Installer1]

hey thanks for the advice. Have got alot done since the last time that I posted this message. Have had the manifold to turbo adaptor built, and have also started the custom 2.5 " exhaust. pretty excited about it all. Just having a little problem finding a fuel management system for the 1g crx. Would love something electronic, but if need be I will use a boost variable fuel regulator. Any Ideas or suggestions would help. THANKS

[Installer1]

And one more thing that I would like to ask is: do you have to have a wastegate and BOV. Or can you just run one or the other.....? Thanks again for any help.....

[pwr_crx]

A wastegate and a BOV are 2 completly different things.

You NEED a wastegate on your bossted honda. Without one your boost will continue to rise as your rpm rises and will you will indefinatly blow your motor. A wastegate opens when your boost inreases past the the set boost pressure for that wastegate. When the wastegate opens, it directs the exhaust around the turbo instead of into it, this way the turbo does not continue to increase boost.

A BOV is not required, most people use them and they are recomended but you can run your boosted car without one. A BOV is mounted on the charge piping between the turbo and the intake manifold. When you take your foot off the gas quickly, the engine drops rpm faster then the turbo does. When this happens the turbo is still making enough boost for the engine running at high RPMs. Since the motor doesnt need as much air pressure to run at a low rpm as it does at a high rpm the pressure increases in the charge piping. The BOV senses this increase in pressure and lets off the extra pressure into the atmosphere.

[Airgazm86]

1. Dont paint your manifold or turbo. It may look cool on the bench, but your neighbours will hate the smell/smoke, and u wont liek it when the paint turns yellowish white

Agreed! I even powdercoated my DSM manifold with 1200 degree high-temp powder and it burnt off within minutes of driving. Also, don't use BBQ grill paint because I painted my O2 dump and it got very brittle after a few minutes. Has anyone ever tried the HT Silicone Coating paint that DEI sells??? It's supposed to be good up to 1500 degrees! Or is there anything else that will stand up to turbo manifold heat on the market?

[87sivtec]

Dan, I'm wondering how many of those points you learned by experience?



Hopefully none.

[rexsk8er]

the blow off valve sense pressure in the manifold when the butterfly closes. autmatics dont need these, because the throttle is kept open even through shifts.

also if there was no wastegate the turbo would spool to increadibly high numbers, causeing it to overheat, and the turbo to bake the oil inside it and caus it to blow up or freeze up.





Sean

[CRXdan]

Lyle, unfortunatley, all except 6.

its all good now though

[TurboG1Rex]

Blow off valves also reduce lag time between shifts. if you dont have a blow off valve the compressor will "shudder" or "surge" quickly slowing it down from there being more pressure in the boost lines when the throttle blade shuts. so by releasing that pressure quickly the turbo is able to respool faster on the next gear.


Some more pointers for Noobs:

1. NEVER NEVER Tune your car with a standard A/F gauge. You WILL blow your motor up.

2. If using "Stock" pistons 6-8 psi is your LIMIT! They will break. I went through two sets of pistons running 10psi. First set from detonation and the second set i actually changed the shape of the piston pin hole, it was really difficult to rotate the pistons on the rod by hand.

3. Get an upgraded clutch. I didnt think my new stock replacement was slipping untill i swapped in a SPEC stage 3 and my car all of a sudden got allot of top end!

4. Tune TUNE TUNE!!! If you have never tuned a turbo car before, get some help. either a dyno tune by a professional or the help of someone that has some experience. And get, borrow, or buy a wideband oxygen sensor, they are getting cheaper and cheaper and they are one of the best ways to accurately tune your car. For a turbo car you want an air fuel ratio of about 11.8:1 to 12.2:1. That will keep your comustion temps a little lower to ward off detonation.

5. If your going to use stock rods have them shotpeened and get some ARP rod studs to help strengthen them a little.

6. Ask for help. Some of the best help is advise from people that have allready done it. I didnt and i broke shit.


Good luck on your forced induction adventures.

[shauno]

Yes, true about the blow off... as you release the gas pedal, the throttle plate closes and if the pressure building (air velocity also) in the intake pipes does not get relieved it will dead head into the butterfly and turn back the other direction going back into the tubine causing it to slow down, basically a shock wave bouncing off the butterfly causing turbo shudder. Very bad. can cause turbine shattering in some extreme cases. you need it with a turbo. I don't know of any systems without it. Usually on stock cars it's just a diaphram thingy that vents back into the intake. And yes, it keeps the turbine spinning to help with the next gear.

Ohhhh I love turbos...

If my JRSC doesn't fit the b16 then I'm doing a turbo baby!!

oh yeah.

Sorry about the car Dan.

Let me know if you have any goodies..

[RTM]

hirschauto

1800 degree paint. Think this would work?

[CRXdan]

If using "Stock" pistons 6-8 psi is your LIMIT! They will break. I went through two sets of pistons running 10psi. First set from detonation and the second set i actually changed the shape of the piston pin hole, it was really difficult to rotate the pistons on the rod by hand

Just because ur pistons got mashed by detonation, doestn mean u cannot run 10 psi/

I am curious to see what you were using for fuel managment.
Also I seriously doubt shotpeenign the rods is necesarry, its recommended, but not needed. Stock d series have been known to handle 10 psi of boost assuming no detonation and good maintenance. I have been runnign 10 for nearly 3-4 months now and I havent had a single problem. No dwetonation though, as soon as I hear any (bad gas) I left off until I fill up again.

[TurboG1Rex]

I gaurentee that when you pull your motor apart it will have some f-ed up pistions. heck i was only really running 7 psi (stock WG actuator setting on 2g dsm T25) It would spike at 10 but bleed down to 7 because the turbo is so damn tiny. The pistons wernt mashed because of detonation, The whole time i was running boost on the second set of pistons the tune was done with a wideband (11.8:1 AFR for saftey) I could have went leaner for some extra power but i wanted it to last. I know detonation and i never did on the second set of pistons, they were just too weak. plain and simple.

Fuel management:
-195 LPH fuel pump
-450CC 2nd Gen DSM injectors
-AFC (not hacked but hooked up right)
-NO check valves or anything stupid like that
-Wideband tune

I know how to tune a car and it was right, the pistons just couldnt handle the stress.


As of now this is my setup:

D16A1 engine from 1986 Acura Integra
-Weisco Forged Pistons (7.7:1 Static Compression)
-Crower Forged Rods
-Posted block (Like sonny did)
-O-ringed head
-Fully race ported head
-T3/T04E 54 Trim Turbo
-API doublestacked 1st gen mitsu IC (Dejon tool Style)
-cracked (soon to be replaced) manifold (used the wrong stainless)
-3" turbo back exhaust
-Turbo XS RFL
-DSM 450CC injectors (black tops from 2nd gen)
-Walbro 195 LPH fuel pump
-Apexi AFC fuel management



I know what i am doing, so give some credit where it is due.

Just because you are running a cast piston with 10 psi and havent blown them up yet consider yourself fortunate, but i GAURENTEE that you will break those pistons. I should have done forged after breaking them the first time but live and learn.


What are you running for fuel management dan? FMU? what size pump? what size injectors? any computer management?

If your using an FMU, stock pump, and slightly larger injectors, dont even think you know what your doing. your car will break before the end of the coming summer.



Secondly,
Shotpeening, magnlafluxing, resizing, and using ARP studs ISNT necessary for the rods but considering the extra piece of mind you get for 70-100 dollars is well worth it. I have seen 30-40% more strength gained so why not do it?



Im trying to lend my experience to those whom dont have any experience turbocharging a vehicle, let alone a honda. Ive done my fair share of custom work, ive worked in a couple performance shops as a tech. What i have learned from my failures just helps the newcomer. If they save time and money by doing it right the first time by learning from others mistakes then AWESOME.


Budget kits are just that, sure stock pistons might work for 10 psi, but for how long? the second set lasted me 6 months but they still broke.



Good luck to the aspiring turbocharger, I hope ive helped shine some light on the long road ahead to a fast honda.

[NNBD]

hey TurboG1Rex, can i contact you some day...im new in turbocharging but hey....there's always a first time. the plan is to start an turbo project in january or so.

[EC rider]

You guys

Good thread for those of us who are noobs to the snail.

EC rider

Edited by EC rider, 25 November 2004 - 11:13 AM.