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Losing Oil, Where?


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#1
brutus76

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My engine is consuming oil and I think I have an idea where it is going.

 

I rebuilt the motor after I lost my timing belt and bent some vavles. The only thing i didn't do was replace the valve guides. I can see where the oil could pass through the stem seals a get burnt up, but there is no smoke at start up or when I accelerate.

 

The engine has no signs of oil anywhere on the outside. So where is it going?

 

I do tend to keep the RPMs up near the top on my drive home throught the twisties. Is it normal to have to add oil to these motors?



#2
niccer

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How many miles are on the motor?  Did you do anything to the bottom end when you rebuilt it?  How much oil are you having to ad and in what intervals?  

 

Oil consumption is normal in a high mileage motor, whether it's through the valves or past the rings.  Leaks are also common, but pretty visible if you're loosing as much as you're making it sound like.  A series of small leaks can equate to a larger loss of oil than you might imagine, so don't just look for one large single source.  

 

Also, have someone follow you while you get on it a bit to see if any smoke (blue'ish) comes from your tail pipe.  I'd be willing to bet it's a mixture of both and mostly your rings if you don't notice smoke when you start it up.



#3
Richardcoto452th

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If it's external leaking I mix engine oil with oil dye from the A/C system and just search with the yellow tinted glasses& black light.

#4
brutus76

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Thanks for the responses.

 

To be more clear the timing belt went about a year ago and I replaced the valves all of the top end seals but not the valve guides.

 

About 6 months ago I rebuilt the engine, honed the cylinders and used new rings. I replace every gasket and seal plus new oil.

 

I am kind of leaning towards the valve guides being cracked since I didn't replace the either time. The part I am comfused about is the fact that there is no smoke at start up. And no smoke when I drive. I have a side pipe so I can see the area where it would be smoking.

 

To answer niccer's question, it burns or goes through about a quart in 300 mi. I really need to get this fixed. I am 100% positive that when I reassembled the engine that all of the ring gaps were opposite of each other to prevent blow-by. The engine starts immediately (within 1/2 second from turning the key) and the power is great, so I doubt that there is blow-by.

 

Thanks



#5
niccer

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Just my opinion, but if you are burning a quart of oil every 300 miles from leaking valve guides alone then you'd be seeing a lot of smoke on start-up and in higher rpms.  Chances are that they are part of the problem, but I bet you're leaking from somewhere else too. 

 

Have you tried using a heavier weight oil yet?  Also, get under the car with a brush, eye protection and some degreaser this weekend.  Clean as much crud off as many parts as possible, then drive it around for a while like you usually would and inspect it. 

 

Did you use cast or coated rings when reassembling? 

 

Edit:  Also, have you checked your spark plugs?  If you're burning that much oil, they might have a coating of oil on them.



#6
brutus76

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I have checked my plug. Whitish tan no oil.

 

I don't know the type of rings that I used. To be honest, the rebuild kit was a cheap one from Ebay.

 

The outside of the block is very clean. the only oil I could find was right under the distributor. I have recently replaced that o-ring and there is no more evidence of any outside oil leaking.

 

I like the idea of running higher viscosity oil. I will do an oil change and switch. 

 

My fuel economy for the motor mostly freeway is about 33 mpg. As noted up above i do tend to run up to redline quite a bit.

 

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming.



#7
Sinub

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Just to add a note, oil will burn upon acceleration if it is the rings and deceleration if it is the valve guides. When you have someone follow you, make note of when most of the smoke if anyone comes out.


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#8
brutus76

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Well I am running 10-40 oil now and the oil loss is better.

 

I have tried the accel/decel test to see if there is any oil smoke. I have not tried with anyone behind me yet.

 

I really feel that the oil is coming from the guides and that they are in fact cracked. This seems to have started happening a couple years ago when my timing belt went. I put new valves in and re-seated them but I didn't replace or check the guides.

 

I will order them up soon. I plan on going through rock Auto because they are the only place that I have found actual engine parts. If anyone has any other source let me know.

 

Also, should I just pull the head a have a shop press them in or is this something I can do with my press? Do I need a special tool?



#9
Sinub

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Do not do valve guide replacements yourself if it's your first time. You will need an air chisel(if that's the correct name) to punch them out. It is extremely easy to crack your head in the process of putting the new guides in. I would highly recommend giving it to a professional or have someone who knows what they are doing it help you. Do not use a press. They all have to be within a specific height the first time as well or else you will have to punch them out again and redo it.


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#10
niccer

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Yeah, don't do them yourself.  I'm having mine done too and the shop says they head the head up to a certain temperature (350F?, can't quite remember) and then presses them out.  Not sure what the method is to re-install but from what I've heard it's easy to screw up.  



#11
brutus76

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Nice. I was thinking of heating head up and then spraying the guides with an upside down can of compressed air to shrink the valve guides.

 

niccer, let me know what the shop you are going to quotes the work at.

 

I know I asked above, but does anyone know where to purchase the guides?


Edited by brutus76, 30 August 2014 - 09:03 PM.


#12
Sinub

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To reinstall you need to put the valve guides in dry ice. It is a very quick procedure due to the fact that as soon as they hit room temperature they start expanding. Installing them is just a matter of seconds. It just comes down to doctor like precision and experience. Also Brutus where you located?


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#13
brutus76

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To reinstall you need to put the valve guides in dry ice. It is a very quick procedure due to the fact that as soon as they hit room temperature they start expanding. Installing them is just a matter of seconds. It just comes down to doctor like precision and experience. Also Brutus where you located?


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Two states above you.