8 replies to this topic

[kenny86si]

http://videos.street...F0-D630BA4C598A
I have had this problem since I swapped in the d16a integra motor. The car runs great but it has this sluggish starting problem like a bad battery. However, the battery is new, the starter is freshly rebuilt, the distributer was recently replaced with another used one with no change.

The video shows it cranking- the first crank without the coil wire hooked up(smooth cranking)- then the other times with the coil wire hooked back up and then it is sluggish.

I am at a loss...please help me out.
Kenny

Edited by kenny86si, 17 November 2005 - 12:36 PM.

[EuphoricBlue]

How old are the wires between batary/coil/plugs? You said theat the first clean crank was with the coil disconected right? I would suspect either coil or wires in that case...

Also, how are the ground wires/locations looking? Are they the wires out of the donor car or are they the stock CRX grounds? Is it possible the ground needs to be bigger guage for the swapped motor?

Just throwing out some ideas...

[kenny86si]

true, they all sound good. I have cleaned all the ground points really good to ensure connections. Also, this motor did do this in the donor car as well. I drove that car a few times before I pulled it apart.

To ensure the motor ground was good, I took two pairs of jumper cables and put them on different chassis spots and then clamped the other ends onto the motor to see a difference and it had no effect in the cranking problem. I will try to find some thicker wire for the valve cover ground anyways.

I will try to change out the coil wire to try that solution. But I bought a new set of Ngk's when I did the swap in the middle of last year. I have suspected the coil itself and I have a good standard coil around my garage but i'm unsure how to connect it to test that idea. I may have to just go get one.

Keep the ideas coming
Thanks
Kenny

Edited by kenny86si, 17 November 2005 - 12:38 PM.

[trevor72]

Sound like there is way to much advance in the distributor! My mustang does this with ~20* initial timing. Nock er back a bit I bet that helps. Does generally happen more often when the car is warm? That's what is sounds like to me. If you think about it your starter is trying to push up the pistons agains an igniting mixture, Some advance is needed because of the length of time it takes for the mixture to burn but the piston has almost no inertia, gets loads of resistance because it is forcing an explosion to 'squish' before reaching TDC and then going back down..... and thus the slow starting.

Trevor

Edited by trevor72, 21 November 2005 - 11:00 PM.

[kenny86si]

yes it does it more often when the car is warm; how would you go about knocking back the advance on the distributer; its not moving the timing right??you are speaking of another adjustment internally....
Thanks
Kenny

[trevor72]

yes it does it more often when the car is warm; how would you go about knocking back the advance on the distributer; its not moving the timing right??you are speaking of another adjustment internally....
Thanks
Kenny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope no internal adjustment. I'm talking about moving the timing. Get a timing light, hook it up to the battery and #1 plug wire as required, and set the initial timing with the car idling. Do it according to the service manual, sorry man I havn't done this on my CRX so I don't know what is called for. If you are feeling adventurous (or don't have a timing light or can't borrow one), then loosen all but one dizzy bolt (the ones that attaches it to the head) and then slowly loosen the last bolt and move the dizzy one way or the other (sorry not much help tonight, I can't remember which way is advance and which is retard).

So say, get it started, let it warm up. Now shut it off and go turn it to the left say, just a bit and then try starting it. It may be better. If worse then go the other way. Make sure to tighten at least one bolt to ensure the dist. doesn't move out of adjustment when you aren't looking. If you are really brave, with the dizzy loose (not falling off loose, just loose enough to get it to turn by hand) try rotating the dizzy one way or the other from where you had it set, while running. The motor will tell you where it likes to be, the higher the idle the better (conversely, the shittyer the idle the worse) OH BTW, IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO MAKE A MARK ACCROSS THE TWO SURFACES ON ONE OF THE EARS OF THE DIZZY, SO YOU CAN AT LEAST LINE IT BACK UP TO WHERE IT WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED MESSING WITH IT. ESPECIALLY IF THIS DOESN'T SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM. Now I tryed doing this to my 92 civic when I installed my new distributor king dizzy as that's how I set my race car, before I had a timing light. When doing this running, my 92 civic for some reason didn't seem to particularily care where the initial timing was at idle (I didn't test start it however).

Results may vary.
Be very cautious when working on anything electrical.

After all this starting and tuning, It would be a good idea to have a batt. charger to refund the battery, of it's losses, or let the car idle for a while/ take her for a nice drive after your testing and let the alternator do it's job.

Good luck, and keep us informed of progress,

Trevor

Edited by trevor72, 22 November 2005 - 01:05 AM.

[kenny86si]

well, I wish it was that easy. I have tried moving the dist adj. every which way and it has no effect. I even thought that one cam gear might be off a tooth so I replaced the timing belt and made sure they were perfect. Even another used dist that i swapped on there had no effect . This is why I'm stumped. completely cold the car occasionally fires up fine without the sluggishness but not always. I know someone has had to have gone through this like i am....
kenny

[trevor72]

well, I wish it was that easy.  I have tried moving the dist adj. every which way and it has no effect. I even thought that one cam gear might be off a tooth so I replaced the timing belt and made sure they were perfect.  Even another used dist that i swapped on there had no effect . This is why I'm stumped.  completely cold the car occasionally fires up fine without the sluggishness but not always. I know someone has had to have gone through this like i am....
kenny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, so what is your initial timing set at? I've since learned that 10*BTDC is correct for the original CRX DX motor (5speed). So you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the cam is in the correct possition too? Assuming the cam and crank are in sink, then it could only be pre-ignition due to very shity fuel and a very over heated honda, or ignition timing, or your starter is bunk!

Some more possibilities tho:
1. voltage - check it should be ~14 or more when idling, also put a volt-meter onthe batt. and check the voltage drop when the starter is cranking over, with everything hooked up as if it was supposed to start. Could there be a dead short in the starter, or starter solenoid. and it's only noticeable when there is load (ignition hooked up).

2. you don't have the distributor dialed in correctly (if doing so by hand/ear). There could be a weak spark signal and you have it advanced to coverup a weak signal (weak spark would take longer to burn the mixture) and to give you a better overal feeling of running better but now the timing is advanced way to much when starting and is especially noticable when warm.

3. Not sure about your swap, but is it possible that the motor you have has a knock sensor installed, and is not working correctly? If that motor did originally come with a knock sensor, and it is skrewed is there a possibility that it is telling the computer to mess with the spark (although that sensor usually only retards timing) and cause a poor startup/hard cranking condition.

4. take it to honda! it's only 35 bones, (just skip a diner with the lady friend) and have the thing run on the honda scanner. that's my last suggestion

5. OK I lyed: one last thought, a vaccume leak? have you adjusted the idle at all lately? How many revolutions of the motor does it take to start without interuptions. In the vid. you start it a bit, then stop, then try again, well if you do this, in my experience with EFI, the cold loop nature of EFI causes the motor to flood if it is started and then shuf right off. If I let go of my key when starting y 92civic, just before the motor would catch, the thing would be flooded and I would have to sit with my foot on the throttle, and let the motor 'air out' before it would start again. I've since learned from talking to a friend at honda, that if this happens, just keep the accelerator floored and keep cranking to 'de-flood'.

Hope some of that helps at some point.

Trevor

Edited by trevor72, 23 November 2005 - 07:24 PM.

[87Hf'er]

That still sounds like timing man. Have you went over the wiring? What year was the Integra and what year was the Crx? Are you using the Integra ecu?