25 replies to this topic

[lambs]

New member, first post....

I'm in Australia (Melbourne) and am looking at converting my daughters 3G Civic sedan to EFI, not for performance, but for driveability. It has the original EW2 1.5L engine with 12V head (non CVCC) and downdraft carb. It's also a 4-speed auto, which will be retained.

I've done a search and most of the threads on carb to EFI conversion also concentrate on the DOHC heads, which I'm not interested in doing. Basically I'm after a stock EFI setup, which looks something like this in LHD cars:

http://www.muller.ne...wap1/index.html

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a RHD drive equivalent, but these seem to be rarer than hen's teeth in Australia. I've spoken to a few Jap spec half-cut importers and they don't want to be bothered with anything this old, plus they want a lot more than I'm prepared to pay.

It seems EFI is quite common on equivalent EW series engines sold in the US and Canada, so I suppose the question is whether a system for a LHD drive car could be adapted to a RHD car. From what I've read and seen in photo's I can't see an insurmountable problems. Adding an EFI pump and lines is not an issue as I've built custom EFI systems before, mainly on Nissan's.

Where I could get the parts is the other problem as if I go ahead, I'd prefer to get a complete system from a single donor car (ie inlet manifold, loom, ECU, sensors, etc, etc). Might be tall order tho, and shipping likely to be a killer......

Anyway, any help appreciated.

TIA

[cbstdscott]

Welcome to our site! You have an impressive collection of vehicles. Hopefully you will share some pictures of your Zed and GTR.

I understand that finding a local car with all the bits you need is tough, I am not certain that the costs of shipping to OZ will justify the effort.

Adapting a carb'ed car to FI is a fairly involved process which will include adding a FI car's wiring harness and fuel system for the pressurized tank and return lines. Something to consider: the stock FI system was fairly restrictive and not really a great power maker. But from what you tell us, power is not your consideration. The FI system is good for driveability, but elevation changes (air density) is probably not a factor in OZ. A carb with tight seals and no vacuum leaks should work well.

Adding a set of sidedraft carbs, shaving the head 1mm and a regrind cam turns that engine into a screamer.

Scott

[slavteren]

i know that crx wiring loom can be fittet to a civic, so the other way around should be possible aswell...

otherwize i would try finding something from the uk, not that it proporbly couldn't be convertet from lhd to rhd, but i think it will be extreemely much work.. and i suspects that there is diff. from usdm to jdm and edm too..

i know that this can be done because that is what we did converting my civic to the at model using edm as model wiring

[3GCVC]

the swap itself is quite easy, but like you said parts are the hard thing to find,
you should be able to look out for a 1500 GTi civic which is EW4 Injected and is EDM which should be what you need and there should be some floating around, you guys also got some JDM vehicles so on the off chance you find one that might do, but the 25i is the only SOHC injected and its CVCC from japan so most likely not compatable, unless you find a good motor to swap as well.

really you would want the EW4 engine harness and EFI harness, ecu, intake manifold complete, and dizzy

i should have everything here but thats a lot of weight to ship, might not be too bad though from New Zealand

[JDT]

I have an 87 JDM CRX sitting in my backyard. It's SOHC and FI, it's my parts car and apparently it runs. I don't need anything from that engine so if you want it, PM me. Which part of Melbourne are you from?

[3GCVC]

I have an 87 JDM CRX sitting in my backyard. It's SOHC and FI, it's my parts car and apparently it runs. I don't need anything from that engine so if you want it, PM me. Which part of Melbourne are you from?

that should work, but you will have to join the loom into the existing wiring harness because most of the CRX plugs are different,
also if the engine is an EW5 which it could be it will be CVCC and you will need either the engine or to put normal 1500cc injectors in, not sure what to do about the CVCC injector or if the resistor box is different,

i have run a CVCC intake manifold on a non cvcc engine before with the CVCC injector unplugged so maybe that will work allright.

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Welcome to Rpr fellow aussie

any pictures of the sedan

the swap itself is quite easy, but like you said parts are the hard thing to find,
you should be able to look out for a 1500 GTi civic which is EW4 Injected and is EDM which should be what you need and there should be some floating around, you guys also got some JDM vehicles so on the off chance you find one that might do, but the 25i is the only SOHC injected and its CVCC from japan so most likely not compatable, unless you find a good motor to swap as well.

really you would want the EW4 engine harness and EFI harness, ecu, intake manifold complete, and dizzy

i should have everything here but thats a lot of weight to ship, might not be too bad though from New Zealand

^^^^^ i was about to suggest him for parts

I have an 87 JDM CRX sitting in my backyard. It's SOHC and FI, it's my parts car and apparently it runs. I don't need anything from that engine so if you want it, PM me. Which part of Melbourne are you from?

what you doing with the shell?

Edited by SHOGUNOVDDRK, 27 January 2008 - 09:32 PM.

[zakats]

badpenny has done it, he should chime in aaaany minute now...

[lambs]

Thanks for all the responses....greatly appreciated

Scott - I imported the GTR from Japan before they changed the rules and and made it harder and more expensive. I'll probably be selling it as I just don't get the time to drive it, what with work and all the other projects. The Z is built for club sprint racing (in the US called autocross, I think) and is what I prefer to drive, it runs multi TB EFI (actually Mikuni side-drafts on a custom manifold of my manufacture) using a Motec M48 Pro. I'll see what I can do about photo's. Adapting EFI is not something new to me. Apart from the Z, in the early 80's I had a C210 Skyline running an L28 with a D-Jet system from an early 70's Volvo (+ some Mercedes parts). Giving away my age here......

slavteren - I thought about stuff from the UK/Europe as well, but it seemed to me that parts from US/CDN cars would likely be cheaper due to the greater volume. I'd certainly prefer RHD stuff just from the simplicity point-of-view.

3GCVC - Thanks for the offer. The EW4 sounds interesting....you NZ guys get all the good stuff . Shipping should certainly be cheaper than from the US. Actually my wife and I are planning a trip to NZ later this year or early next.....hmmmmm.....junk yard crawl (my wife would kill me.....). That said, JDT may have the answer, although have to see whether it's CVCC or not (but maybe that could still work).

JDT - very interested. I'm in Ferntree Gully. I'll PM you soon.

SHOGUNOVDDRK - thanks for the welcome. I'll work on some pics.

zakats - waiting for badpenny....

Cheers

[badpenny]

Ok, you want to retain the 4speed auto (I don't know why, but then again, if its for a child, yes I do). Ok apparently JDT has everything you are going to need. Now, in order to get the wiring harness to work, you are going to need to figure out(well, you can repin part of it) to allow it to fit inside the cabin of the sedan. Not to mention the crx has vacuum actuated thermostatic controls whereas the sedan/wagon/hatchies are manual. You need to retain your portion of the wiring harness for the dash (of the sedan) Or you can see about taking the guts from the dash of the CRX and having them present on the sedan dash just to keep from repinning much. Oh, and if you want that dash to fit (the crx dash in the sedan) there is a structural (I call it structural, I don't know if it is or not, but for sake of argument, lets say it is) beam across the back of the current dash. YOu could chop this out on both sides of teh steering column brace. This would allow the crx dash to fit. You are going to have a slight issue when keeping the auto transmission. You either have to search out every length of wire that connects to the Shifter, or you have to make your own. 3gencivic has converted an automatic harness to allow for a 5 speed manual, this info should be useful. Mainly so you know what to remove and what to allow. Due to the fact that neither transmission is seen by the ecu, you shouldn't have a problem with running it. You will just need to keep the neutral safety switch wiring so the car cannot be started in drive.

What other questions do you have?

Thanks Zakats for bringing this to my attention.

[fat_85_civic]

i would gettt all the wiring and stuff from a integra and put in and get the inlet manifold from a us or nz car and the computer and you should be able to get it all up and runnig oretty easily.

[JDT]

The only stuff I've taken from the car are guards and interior plastics so it should have what you need. PM sent.

[lambs]

Ok, you want to retain the 4speed auto (I don't know why, but then again, if its for a child, yes I do). Ok apparently JDT has everything you are going to need. Now, in order to get the wiring harness to work, you are going to need to figure out(well, you can repin part of it) to allow it to fit inside the cabin of the sedan. Not to mention the crx has vacuum actuated thermostatic controls whereas the sedan/wagon/hatchies are manual. You need to retain your portion of the wiring harness for the dash (of the sedan) Or you can see about taking the guts from the dash of the CRX and having them present on the sedan dash just to keep from repinning much. Oh, and if you want that dash to fit (the crx dash in the sedan) there is a structural (I call it structural, I don't know if it is or not, but for sake of argument, lets say it is) beam across the back of the current dash. YOu could chop this out on both sides of teh steering column brace. This would allow the crx dash to fit. You are going to have a slight issue when keeping the auto transmission. You either have to search out every length of wire that connects to the Shifter, or you have to make your own. 3gencivic has converted an automatic harness to allow for a 5 speed manual, this info should be useful. Mainly so you know what to remove and what to allow. Due to the fact that neither transmission is seen by the ecu, you shouldn't have a problem with running it. You will just need to keep the neutral safety switch wiring so the car cannot be started in drive.

What other questions do you have?

Thanks Zakats for bringing this to my attention.

The slushy has to be retained as my daughter is only licensed to drive an auto. I prefer manuals myself, but there's no choice in this case.

Looking at the interior of the car there seems to be plenty of places to put the extra wiring and passing through the firewall also shouldn't be too much of a problem (done that before....). I gather the ECU normally sits under the passenger seat (??). If I can get enough of the wiring, I should be able to make it all fit.

By thermostatic controls do you mean for the heating/ventilation ?? To be honest I'd rather keep all the in-cabin sedan equipment as standard, and just splice in the necessary parts of the CRX loom. Looking at the EFI diagrams for a LHD car, it appears the main relay is part of the main loom not the engine loom. Can you confirm ?? If so it means a bit more hassle in terms of wring.

One thing I've noticed that may save a bit of time is that the fuel hose connections at the tank appear to be a removable part. That is, the metal pipes at the tank appear to be an assembly that is attached to the tank in a similar way to the fuel gauge sender. At least, that's what appears to be the situation based on the diagrams in the workshop manual. If that is the case, it should be possible to swap the part from the CRX tank to the sedan tank and then just attach the fuel pumps (well, it's a theory......). I may just use the existing fuel lines from the tank to the engine bay in the short term, remembering this is a stock engine, so they should supply enough fuel.

Any thoughts welcome on problem areas I need to be aware of.

[lambs]

i would gettt all the wiring and stuff from a integra and put in and get the inlet manifold from a us or nz car and the computer and you should be able to get it all up and runnig oretty easily.

It's funny you mention that. I was out at Pick-a-Part (local self serve wreckers) on the weekend looking for some minor trim for the sedan. They had an 89 Integra with a black top twin cam that still had most of the bits and pieces for the EFI in place, plus there was a mid-80's Rover 415i (??) with a brown top twin cam Honda engine that was all complete. There was also a few ED (late 80's/early 90's) civics.

Anyway, I thought about grabbing the EFI stuff as it looks similar and could probably be made to do the job, but at the end of the day I'd rather get all the bits I need from the same car with a similar engine. I've been burnt before going with a bitsa. One of the first conversions I did was an ECCS red-top RB20DET into a local spec Skyline. I bought the engine as a package from a local supplier, but it would only run on a couple of cylinders. After a lot of mucking around it turned out that Nissan changed the internal design of the CAS from the earlier NICS red-top RB20DET when they went to the ECCS engine. The supplier had put a NICS CAS onto the ECCS engine and it wouldn't work with the ECCS ECU. It was only after I presented them with details of the differences via a friend that works for Nissan that they gave me the right CAS.....

[JDT]

Pics and contact number sent.