20 replies to this topic

[civician]

I really appreciate anyone who can help double check my plans and advise me on this repair.

 

I have an 87 Civic DX Hatch that started overheating and spraying coolant out of the radiator cap after I ran it through an automatic car wash. I think that the fan blew cold water onto the hot cylinder head and may have warped it. A local mechanic told me I needed a new head gasket and wanted to charge $680 (maybe because I'm a helpless girl? . Instead I'm going to replace it myself. 

 

In addition to the overheating issues associated with the head gasket I've also been finding oil in my distributor cap. My hope is that it just needs a new o-ring where the dizzy connects to the head. 

 

Below I'm listing the parts I'm pretty sure I need: 

 

Distributor o-ring 30110-PE1-006 

oil control jet gasket 15142-PE0-000

Gaskets for the cylinder head, valve cover, intake and exhaust manifold

Camshaft oil seal

liquid gasket for the water outlet housing that attaches to the cylinder head

Fan Thermosensor (one isn't currently installed in my radiator, so the fan is running all the time)

 

 

Now for the parts I think I should replace while I'm in there:

 

Water pump/gasket

timing belt

drivebelts (a/c and alternator)

PCV valve, since I'll be working in that space and it's cheap. 

Engine block coolant drain bolt and gasket (mine is stripped pretty badly but hopefully I can find a way to remove it while I've got some space to work with)

 

Is there anything I should add to this list? 

 

The main thing I'm a little caught up on is what to do with the rocker arm/camshaft/valve assemblies. I'm taking the head into a machine shop to have it resurfaced. The place I called said it would be $50, and an extra $8 to clean it up before resurfacing. They said that I can just leave the assemblies in place but will the cleaning process damage any parts, like valve stem seals? Maybe they're just gonna clean the surface that will be machined and that's why it's so cheap. 

 

My car was running pretty smoothly before the overheating began and only has 115k miles on it so maybe I can leave the cam and valves in place and just check my valve clearances toward the end of this process. 

 

Any advice for some of the hardest parts of this process so that I can anticipate them. I have a pretty good sized tool collection but are there any specialty tools that you've had to use for this project. I know I have to buy a tap and die kit and a valve spring compressor if I end up needing to replace blow valves. I do have plenty of sockets, breaker bar, torque wrench, drivers, etc. type things. 

 

I also want to clean up as much of my engine as possible so it looks nice after this is done. Any magical tools, cleaners, degreasers that I should know about? 

 

Thanks in advance for any input. This is pretty 101 for a lot of you, I know, but a little new to me and I desperately need to turn this problem into a reliable car. 

 

-Cathleen

[Dirtcircle86]

Cathleen,

Not to add any gloom to your head gasket problem, but my 86 DX actually had a warped block and a within-spec head. I think the kid had the head resurfaced and bolted it on without checking the block. Mine could have been an exception but I would make certain the block is flat before bolting it all together. I can't remember how much "sag" I had in the block but it was significant, like maybe .008. The aluminum between #2 and #3 sleeves was burnt down pretty bad also but once I had the sleeves flat, I JB welded the divot and made another pass to flatten it. When I blew it up, the head gasket was the only thing still intact....

The 17mm head of the block drain is rounded off? With the exhaust out of the way, there are some external bolt remover/extractors that should pull it right out.

Oil in the dizzy, will be an internal seal/bearing issue, not the O-ring as it leaks down the side/end of the head typically. I have a non-leaky EW-1 dizzy with new ($95) module, new vacuum canister, surefire wires, and NGK plugs I would let go way cheap jus cause I hate to throw it away. I'd throw in a new fuel pump too...... I haven't thrown anything away yet if you need something I'm in NW Arkansas.

Wish I were closer or I'd help you out in a heartbeat. I'm a little bit in love with you already cause you used car part words and said tool names and stuff! Please don't take offense, OUCH, my wife just smacked me..... I'm pretty new to Honda wrenchin' but its still just a motor.

Good luck with it and its admirable you are tackling this project. I'm sure some of the seasoned "Peppers" will help out too.

Is this your first time for such an endeavor?

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 08 February 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[civician]

Cathleen,

Not to add any gloom 

Thank you for the reply. 

 

A warped or damaged block is my worst fear… I had planned on inspecting it well... but now that you mention it maybe I'll take everything apart and look before I go and buy a gasket set and bunch of other things for this.

 

I'll look into that bolt extractor… that was a good tip because I've never confronted a problem like that and didn't know about such tool. But I'll probably need to do some push ups to prepare for that thing from what I've read elsewhere. 

 

The distributor… is that a hitachi, the kind with the ignitor inside of the unit? I've seen 2 different types. Also, is the canister you refer to the same as the fuel vapor charcoal canister? How much for everything you listed, but also, do you have the rear passenger taillight assembly? Mine is busted. In fact, what kind of shape is your frame in and are you trying to sell the whole thing?

 

This is the first time I've gone this deep into a motor by far. I've never been afraid of working on my babies, though. With mainly Haynes manuals I've done brakes, cv joints, pain in the butt to get to oil pumps, and all sorts of maintenance stuff. But I know this is going to be a serious challenge. 

 

Thanks again, DC.

[Dirtcircle86]

I'm a tightwad, but $680 for a HG seems pretty ridiculous. Oreillys lists a re-man long block for $1000 I think.... Find somebody local with a machinists strait edge (and feeler gauges) and have em check the block. Do not despair, I haven't read much about saggy blocks on here, I just happened to be unlucky ( maybe). I just won't put one together without checking it.

Mines an 86 CRX DX stripped dirt track car. I blew up the engine and am swapping to a Teg D16A1/CG. Like an idiot, I stripped the car and piled everything on a trailer and scrapped it before I knew RPR existed. Lots of wasted parts...... The valves in #4 contacted the piston before the rod exited so I assume the head is toast.

If it turns out you can salvage the engine, PM me if you still need some parts.

Edit: Oh, why do you need to remove the block coolant drain?

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 09 February 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[rallyxcrx]

I have gotten my engine bay completely soaked rallyxing in the rain, no blown head gasket, but my engine has died due to a wet ignition. What are your engine symptoms? Dave

[civician]

Edit: Oh, why do you need to remove the block coolant drain?

 

I'll let you know if I do need parts after this attempt. On the drain plug, it's not at all essential but I wouldn't mind being able to drain the block for flushing in the future. Last time I just drained via the radiator and cycled water a few times to clear everything out. It just occurred to me that this might be the best time to access it if I ever do. 

[civician]

I have gotten my engine bay completely soaked rallyxing in the rain, no blown head gasket, but my engine has died due to a wet ignition. What are your engine symptoms? Dave

 

Hi Dave, 

 

When I initially bought the car there was a ton of burnt coolant smoking from the exhaust. I researched and it seemed likely that the intake manifold was the problem considering the symptoms overall, and I bought a heavy duty liquid gasket sealer to add to my coolant mix which eliminated it completely.

 

For about 2 more weeks though the engine was still running a little hot, like 3/4 up the gauge but it calmed down to below half after I replaced with thermostat with one rated at the OE temp and flushed my cooling lines (which removed that gasket leak sealer)

 

2 months later I pulled out of a car wash and the engine lagged. I looked at the temp and it was near red. Popped the hood and coolant had sprayed all over my engine bay from the rad-cap. I refilled with coolant and it was normal again. After that for about 2 weeks I was having to top off the coolant due to mild overheating every 4 days, then 3, then 2 and then one day it got so hot that I chose to get it towed. 

 

I figured it was the intake manifold or head gasket because the radiator would bubble up and out of the tank with the cap off. My hope was intake manifold or perhaps something simple that I wasn't thinking of so I let a mechanic look at it. I asked them to pressure test the radiator and they recommended testing the head gasket (I'm not sure how they tested it, but it wasn't compression.) They charged me 50 dollars and 2 hours later called and said that I needed a new head gasket. 

 

Perhaps my first idea was right, that the intake manifold gasket has failed along one of the coolant passages? I'm guessing this mainly because there is no coolant in my oil or oil in my coolant. 

 

3 days ago I added more gasket sealer and have been starting the car a few times a day to see if it builds up a seal. No dice yet, though. I've got a lot of evaporated coolant in the exhaust, and after the engine warms up it keeps on warming up to about 90%, still not in the red zone. But when it hits about %80 before red evaporated coolant starts coming out of the radiator cap, and when I increase the rpms it heats up a little more and fluid shoots out of the cap. 

 

Sorry to write so much. I just want to provide the details that might help with diagnoses. Thank you for your help. 

[rallyxcrx]

You have a blown head gasket. 680 is a good price, if he grinds the valves. This engine is a valve interference engine, meaning if the valve timing is lost, the valves hit the pistons and bend the valves. First remove everything from the head. You will have to pull the radiator to get the exhaust manifold off. Take everything off the head, leaving just the valves, removing intake, covers, distributor, rocker shafts, cam and belt. Check block for cracks and flatness, Best to check that the too middle pistons and the two end pistons come up at the same time, as your rods may be bent. Clean the head  with your favorite solvent and take it to the machine shop to have the valves ground and re surfaced. Clean the old gasket off the block with a wood chisel with the bevel against the block, take your time and be careful not to scratch the block, good luck, Dave 

[civician]

You have a blown head gasket. 680 is a good price, if he grinds the valves. This engine is a valve interference engine, meaning if the valve timing is lost, the valves hit the pistons and bend the valves. First remove everything from the head. You will have to pull the radiator to get the exhaust manifold off. Take everything off the head, leaving just the valves, removing intake, covers, distributor, rocker shafts, cam and belt. Check block for cracks and flatness, Best to check that the too middle pistons and the two end pistons come up at the same time, as your rods may be bent. Clean the head  with your favorite solvent and take it to the machine shop to have the valves ground and re surfaced. Clean the old gasket off the block with a wood chisel with the bevel against the block, take your time and be careful not to scratch the block, good luck, Dave 

Thanks for the thorough response. Couple more questions. 

 

1. With the cam removal and reinstallation are there any mistakes that I might make to upset the timing sequence, or do I just need to make sure the woodruff key notch is installed in the same position as removal, and the cam sprocket lines UP and head marks lined up? 

 

2. On the valves, can I just pull them with a spring compressor, disassemble and keep parts separate, clean the metal parts... and then use some sort of rotary attachment on an electric drill to go over the valves to clean them up? I saw a video on this and then the valves are smoothed into the ports with a suction cup tool. (i.e. clean, inspect and lap the valves) If I can do this what sort of attachment should I use to clean the valves and can you recommend one to clean the head and block surfaces?

 

3. Checking the pistons involves just rotating the crankshaft pulley, right? In order to reset it correctly does it need to go just a 1 full rotation or 2?

Edited by civician, 09 February 2014 - 07:03 PM.

[rallyxcrx]

1. I always install the cam timing belt and time the cam before I install the rocker shafts, this keeps all valves closed during timing, preventing any piston to valve contact.

2. Let your machinist grind your valves, your engine will have more power and fuel economy with professionally done valves. I usually take the head to the machinist with 

valves left in and covered in crap, and there is no extra charge for cleaning.

3. No the cam isn't on or timed, so it doesn't matter. You are checking to see if pistons 1 and 4 and pistons 2 and 3 are up at the same time, indicating that nothing is bent, Dave

[gtpilot]

Start with pulling the valve cover and checking the torque on all of the head bolts - I will bet you will find that when it overheated that some of them are loose.  I had a friend who's car showed the exact same symptoms as yours and he had no money for a repair...we torqued down the head bolts and the gasket resealed enough for it to be driven for another year before he could tear it down and rebuild it. 

 

You may get lucky too!

 

Kirk

[civician]

Start with pulling the valve cover and checking the torque on all of the head bolts - I will bet you will find that when it overheated that some of them are loose.  I had a friend who's car showed the exact same symptoms as yours and he had no money for a repair...we torqued down the head bolts and the gasket resealed enough for it to be driven for another year before he could tear it down and rebuild it. 

 

You may get lucky too!

 

Kirk

I wish I had tried this before I got involved with this mess of vacuum hoses. I'm considering a devac before buttoning everything back up. Thank you for the reply, Kirk. 

 

 

 

Thank you for the tips, RallyCRX. 

[civician]

It took me about 6 hours, but I manager to wrestle it out.



Definitely blown.



Interestingly the Intake Manifold nuts were barely tight. The Exhaust and Cat connectors were pretty vicious though.

[Dirtcircle86]

Good job! The nuts on my intake were barely finger tight.... I feel your pain.

[Dirtcircle86]

I did a red-neck re-surface. It worked great but I don't recommend it.