21 replies to this topic

[Andy69]

I was over at the SCCA Solo forum perusing the Street Prepared forum, looking for loopholes and potential upgrades.

 

Looks like the serious 1st gen folks all install the power steering from the Civic sedan.  I was thinking about improving the steering given I that I think it held me back last weekend.  Steering quickeners can't be used in SP but update/backdate lets me swap in the Civic power steering.

 

It just so happens there is an 87 automatic sedan in the local junkyard.  I don't know if it has the power steering or not. 

 

Just wondering if it is necessary to get it from a junkyard or can I just buy the requisite rebuilt parts and whatever else I can't get that way, get from the JY.  I just have limited time to spend lying on my back in the mud these days.

 

I noticed the rebuilt rack on Ebay is also listed as fitting Integra.  I'm pretty sure those are different part numbers originally.  What would I be looking at having to do to make on of those fit?

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/...cfea56d&vxp=mtr

[RETROCRX]

I don't have anything to offer.....BUT......I am interested in what you find out.  Would be cool to run power steering WITH my steering quickener.

 

I've heard some talk about an electric power steering system that someone uses but the person's name escapes me......

 

Rob

[Andy69]

Further research indicates the Integra and Civic PS racks are the same part no, but have different mounting brackets than the manual rack.

 

This is where it gets tricky per the class rules.  Obviously the PS is legal under update/backdate, but how is it done - swapping the sub frame or fabricating new mounts?  One of those methods might not work under the rules even though the end result is the same.

Edited by Andy69, 23 September 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[Andy69]

and, as an aside, I think I've opened a can of worms with this FSP stuff.  So much that I can change, that I NEED to change, if I want to be competitive at the national level in this car.

 

Not that my driving is competitive, that's a separate issue.  But I think my best strategy is to keep doing what I've been doing - making gradual changes to the car as my driving improves.  I was complemented on that last weekend, that I didn't just run out and make all these initial changes while I was still slow, but waited until the car was limiting me more than my skill.

[CSPCRX]

Do you already have the quicker of the two manual racks?

[Andy69]

no, but update/backdate allows me to add it.

 

I think the 84 I got the hubs off two weeks ago is an HF, I'm going to go back and maybe snag the rack and the rear drums.

 

But it seems like the guys at the championship levels are upgrading to the PS rather than the manual HF rack.  These guys are running 9 inch wheels with 275 race rubber.  I think even with my big lurch arms I might be hard pressed to muscle that much rubber back and forth with a manual rack.  Heck, even with my 225s I've managed to rip one steering wheel 3/4 off the car already this year

Edited by Andy69, 23 September 2014 - 03:50 PM.

[Maine_Honda_Racer]

But why?

[Andy69]

good question.  there must be some advantage that at least some folks think makes it better than the HF rack.

 

I think it has to do with running very wide tires and making very tight turns.  I've heard stories of people spraining wrists, although I've never experienced anything remotely that dramatic.  I'm not worried about that, I'm more interested in quicker steering, so if the PS rack isn't any quicker than the manual, I wouldn't think it would be worth the trouble.  But if it is.....

Edited by Andy69, 23 September 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[Andy69]

Here's a page from the 1987 Civic manual.  Note what it says under steering:

 

Overall ratio - 19.1-21.6 (17.9):1

Turns lock to lock - 4.25 (3.59)

 

What the heck do those extra numbers mean?  Under the manual box it just has one number (like 19.1 and 4.25) and nothing else.  Variable ratio?

 

[Buford]

A teg rack should work. also you'll need the pump off that Civic sedan.  Contact Luis Moreno in El Paso as he runs a PS rack, Pump and a quickener.  He has lots of pics and how to to do this conversion.

[RETROCRX]

Here's a question regarding a hydraulic power rack WITH a steering quickener.

 

Would you not experience power steering lag much easier than an without a quickener?  Being that your input speed would be doubled I see that it could be a major concern.

 

OK I know, off topic.....sorry.

 

Rob

[CSPCRX]

Having driven first gens with and without the quicker rack. I really noticed it more in the sweepers or slaloms.  Where you need quick back and forth steering.  I have always run very wide tires on 9 in rims and had no issues.

 

I can see where making it easier would allow you to perhaps respond more easily.  Years ago we used to joke about our Honda muscles.  The combination of wide tires and LSDs really means your have to constantly steer these cars on Solo courses.  Fun to let other racers drive your 1st gen and see their reaction to how much it really takes to get these things around the course quickly.

[Andy69]

I don't normally have a problem, I just noticed it last weekend on some tight slaloms.  A series of tight back and forth turns and I have to slow way down.

 

I snagged an HF rack on Ebay for $25, I'm going to try that out.  I'm still thinking about ways to quicken the steering.  I saw the Prelude thread regarding swapping out the pinion gear or both the rack and the pinion gears into the CRX housing.  I wonder if there are any others that perhaps might work  in that respect - Legend, Accord, later Civics, etc.

[Screech]

I want the HF or Civic 1300 rack too. I do get constant remarks about the amount of steering input it takes to make the car turn, not the effort, just how far the wheel has to move. I think the quickener rules may need a revisit, I read that some classes allow them, but no in the cabin, problem is that our car have the entire steering column in the cabin. wish I still had the Integra at the house with its PS rack and subframe.

 

I would likely use the PS rack without a PS pump. friend had that setup on his SRT-4. For daily duties I have only 175/70R13s so turning that without PS on the PS rack should not be too bad, just will suck in paddock with 255/40R13 A6s on the front.

[Andy69]

I want the HF or Civic 1300 rack too. I do get constant remarks about the amount of steering input it takes to make the car turn, not the effort, just how far the wheel has to move. I think the quickener rules may need a revisit, I read that some classes allow them, but no in the cabin, problem is that our car have the entire steering column in the cabin. wish I still had the Integra at the house with its PS rack and subframe.

 

I don't think you'll see quickeners allowed in SP.  Heck, they're raising hell about the Si being reclassed from CSP to FSP as it is.  Maybe in Prepared.

 

In NASA, changes to the steering ratio do not incur classing points as long as the geometry remains the same.