291 replies to this topic

[Dirtcircle86]

1) left foot brake under power = oversteer during corner exit.
2) negative camber on the passenger side
3) integra torsion bars
4) no front sway bar
5) locked rear axle
6) teg rear springs - 3 coils removed
7) Rebuilt rusted out PHB mount

I want to be legal on my local track. cheating is not an option....

All these pieces are OEM BTW....

 

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 10 March 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[Dirtcircle86]

Two of the cars I run against are to be chassis AL skinned SHO's but I don't think they will be any problem. They do set the bar for being "legal" though. The two cars I want to beat are a husband/wife Honda team. One is a 90's civic with (just a guess) a well built B series and a 2g CRX that, I can assume, has a similar power plant. The CRX won season points champ this year. Both his cars sound pretty nasty. I'm sure he frequents here but dunno if he is a member or not.

My last post was probably way too much info for someone to break down and weigh in on all my plans but I'm curious about the back axle. I want it lighter but I'm leary of weakening it. I'm contemplating trussing it up a little and adding the teg PHB behind the axle (double phb's). That would add weight which I DO NOT want to do. The crx PHB has been wadded up before and repaired by welding in a length of maybe 1" tube. Not my doing.

I'm pretty sure all the front runners have Lincoln locked front difs which may be the way to go. I've convinced myself the locked dif would limit oversteer past the apex, where a left foot brake under power could possibly induce oversteer. The off-throttle turn-in oversteer is sweet, but it plows up-track after the apex. My opponents leave the corner pretty well but no oversteer and they are plowing but spinning BOTH front tires.

I'm sure folks loose interest quickly with such a long post so ill keep em to a minimum in the future. I will post here as I build and would like to add some pictures but don't seem to have that option. Any help locating the "attach file" button would be cool!

[Dirtcircle86]

It would seem there isn't much interest here in dirt track racing but I am going to trudge on since there are a few interested and several have inquired. 
 
I can't for the life of me get a picture to post.  Clicking on the "Image" icon above asks for a URL, which is where I get bogged down.  I've got some brake and camber questions I will ask elsewhere. 
 
The track I will race at has changed the FWD rules for the better.  They are allowing rub rails, 5* camber on any wheel, tires/wheels only have to match on their respective axle, and are allowing bracing from the cage to the strut towers both front and rear.  They are also allowing SOME modification to OEM suspension, specifically the springs.  The more bracing, bumpers, and protection we can add to the cars will help with longevity.  The final race day this year there were only seven functioning cars left to race.  A month or so earlier, there were approximately twenty. I would think external protection would be good for the track and the racers but I suppose it would promote "dirty" racing. 

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 10 March 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[PuddleSkipper]

I'm definitely interested, post your results pleeeeaaaassseee!!! Not that I will ever dirt race, just have a curious nature of how things work. I think the teg rear brakes will be heavier than the drums. The lightest rear brakes are the CRX HF rear brakes which use an aluminum drum. I've read there is no increased brake pedal feel with the rear teg brake swap and that i can push the tires out a little bit more due to the thickness of the "hat" on the rotor. I would use Chedda's rear lock out which replaces the rear sway bar, I think that's what you were intending? I would also replace the rear axle with a CRX HF version. It would good enough for Kakabox to use it for auto X so I think it should hold up fine. If you use Chedda's lock out plate you'll have to weld a plate to the HF axle so the locker plate can be attached. The HF axle doesn't have the internal sway bar so it doesn't have the mounts for the sway bar which is what Chedda's locker plate bolts to. If you do this and use Chedda's locker plate you might be able to play with how high the right side of the car sits which can adjust your steering. I know a lot of guys prefer the torsion bar cars cause they can jack up the one side of the car precisely for that reason, and don't forget you have torsion bars as well!! You can also run a Dodge Caravan rear sway bar to replace the rear internal sway bar. Chedda also has rear and front spherical bearings, and he can modify an axle to have adjustable rear camber as well, but not sure if he can do it to a smaller diameter axle like the HF. He also make a panhard bar brace which would be good, and a panhard bar. His top hats might be something to look into as well.......Keep posting, looking forward to updates!

[Dirtcircle86]

I love Chedda's products but even with the higher $1500 claim this year, they are out of reach. The first practice/race day is March 1 so I gotta get crackin. I cut the roof off to make access easier for cage mods. I'm not a little feller and cage-to-strut tower braces are allowed now. I also needed access for wiring, gauge install (VSS), and pedal mods (booster delete).

I don't think I will gain much, if anything, from rear brake mods. Probably focus more on lighter rotating mass than stopping power. If the weight loss is significant, I can source 88-91 civic backing plates and aluminum drums as there are NO HF's that I can find. I have an 88 HF that will race also. We are now allowed 1" difference in wheelbase so if the right side is longer it will want to turn left, right?

Camber I get, rear steer i get, toe out I get, but weight transfer eludes me. My guess is I want preload LF to RR and rotate weight to RF while turning. with tail brake under power, I get left turn. I think.

With a locked rear axle, would I benefit from a limiting strap in the center? My spotter claimed I didn't lift my left rear with my last set up (read: giant stab in the dark) but if it is faster, I'm ok if it never touches down.

The last time I scaled, it was really heavy front/left front.

I am totally a rookie driver and practice will dictate the set-up. Full off throttle is sweet on turn in/oversteer/rotation but my exit was where I lost. I was running up on SHO's in the corner and I had 76 glorious CVCC hp..... Research tells me to turn-in hard under cruise throttle and exit under left-foot-brake cruise throttle to keep it rotated. I can't wait to try it!

My fear is my gear. Hopefully, I can get a few more out of it but the trick is leaving the corner fast because they are not (neither was I).

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 10 March 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[Mark L]

I done a lot  of road courses on Ice, but I done a few "test and tunes" on  1/4 mile clay bullring with my 94 Teg and 86 Civic.

 

To be honest, the 3rd gen civic/1st gen CRX suspension is not that suited to a dirt track. There is not a lot of available travel. Also it is hard to swap out the torsions for different rates. But the adjustable torsions and the light weight of the chassis is a plus.

For the rear suspension, I would try teg springs. I would run limiting straps on the rear so the back  wheel will not lift so far.

 

 I would turn 1/8 or even a 1/4 of tow out in the front to help the turn in.  You really should get a chamber  gauge.  You can actually make you own static camber plates... A piece of steel with 2 holes for the mount and a hole for the strut. I can send a pic if you need one.

 Is this a 2nd gear track?

 

 Personally When I tested on the 1/4 mile I feel I could of thrown out my brake pedal. But the car I ran did not have a left turn only setup.

 

 I have always ran a locked diff. I can knock off a lot of speed in a corner by turning harder and giving much gas. The slip of the tires and the oversteer or the FWD Diff sort of even everything out. Left foot braking never works for me.

 

Getting close to the Season.. Gotta put in a few pics

 

 

Setting up for the corner

 

 

This season's Ride

 

Mark

[Dirtcircle86]

Ha! Mark L, I think we were typing at the same time.

I was kind of under the impression the torsion bar front would be good for one direction only ie: negative RF camber under compression, LF +camber on corner rotation. I would LOVE to score some heavy torsion bars but there don't seem to be any used/cheap ones. The butt load of time building (the fun part) would never be covered by the claim. If I get to that point, the $300 fine to continue racing would be worth it. It's illegal to sell anything resembling a police car so I'm kinda exempt......

I was really leery, like others, to divulge build info but I'm running against 220 hp, tube chassis, aluminum skinned SHO's. if they complain about getting beat by a car with half the power then so be it. I'm 100% OEM.

Is there a picture posting tutorial on here?

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 10 March 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[Dirtcircle86]

Oh, your ice rig looks like a freaking blast!! There's some guys trying to start up some pasture RallyX a few miles from me so ima give that a shot too. Mostly side by sides but there's a run-what-u-brung class too.

[Dirtcircle86]

Just trying to add a photo... Testing testing.



Success! Woohoo! That's what it looked like when I got her home. More to come..

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 26 December 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Dirtcircle86]

+ a cage



After I blew it up and pulled the EW

[Dirtcircle86]

Current state after removing the upper access panel.

[Dirtcircle86]

Thought I would add a pic of my new EW-1 paper weight... Photobucket may have turned it upside down.

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 10 March 2014 - 10:47 PM.

[Dirtcircle86]

II think I'm set for now on parts. I'm still hunting a civic standard L3 with the 1.65 second, 3.88 F/D.

Edited by Dirtcircle86, 10 March 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[Dirtcircle86]

I apologize but,



It really is.....

[PuddleSkipper]

just to throw this in here since you have a donor car,and your going OBD0, you can use the Teg wiring harness, the main harness, engine harness, and possibly dash harness. The layout of the engine compartment, fuse boxes, wire loom brackets, ect is similar to the 1G/3G. You'll just have to repin some of the connectors. Or you can just add the wires from the teg harness too, your preference.