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Drifting?!?!?


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#31
PacerRacerGirl

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FWIW, I've found that I get some great (unintentional) drift's out of my car with a lot of rear toe-out and high rear tire pressures. Not to mention a lot of entrance speed...

Of course I discovered this on the autocross course in my MX-6! (This is the only FWD car I've ever driven that drives like it's RWD!) I put on a lot of really great drifts around a certian sweeper ... not fast, but fun and impressive looking. (I sorted it out by my 3rd run to take top Pax ...temporarily! laugh.gif )

...Not great for my Kumho's either dry.gif I learned a lot though!

There is no way I could do a connected drift like you see on the drift video though ... that would only work with a RWD car. Drifting a FWD car would only work for one corner at a time. (But it would be fun if you set your car up right!)

The only problem I can see with drifting a 3G/1G is the length of the wheelbase. On an autocross course, when they start to let go, you have about .1 seconds to get it back under control or you are going around in a circle. I've found with the longer wheelbase of my MX-6 that when the back end starts to let go, I have a much larger margin of time to react to it getting wild on me, thus saving it. YMMV.
Keeping a short wheelbase car in a controlled oversteer seems to be walking a razors edge to me. (Kudo's to those who can do it!)

Edited by PacerRacerGirl, 18 June 2004 - 04:51 PM.


#32
Airjockie

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The wheelbase is the killer....Like I said...no time to pull the handbrake...but from the right steering control, the right gear at the right time, having the car stiff as hell, and some bald drag radial's on the back while the Azenis grip up front...the car did good....Later I learned that if I would have disconnected the front sway bar, than I would have more oversteer...meh...it was fun..

Right now I am still building the little drift monster from what I can scrounge up here and there...and I am almost done....about 1-2 weeks away from getting it back on the road...then once all the bugs are worked out, the CRX will go back under the knife...and get fully rebuilt...and once again..it might see a few events. ph34r.gif

But the AE86 and the 1st gen CRX is so close to identical...that it is scary....

If I can master the drift in the AE86 like I want to, then I can litterally drift any car out there....but it takes a running car, seat time, and events to make that happen....keep it off the streets wink.gif and I dont have that set up yet...but it's almost there.
87 CRX SI, Wide body, and still not running...RB25DET?!?!?!
74 260Z....going to get rebuilt soon....
07 Subaru outback...Daily Driver...

#33
Airjockie

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Oh...and here's the rebuild thread for the AE85 engine....

If your bored and want a good laugh... biggrin.gif

Airjockie's POS engine

Skittle's candy, Tonka Toys, Playdough, an edible engine...all comes to mind as you read rolleyes.gif
87 CRX SI, Wide body, and still not running...RB25DET?!?!?!
74 260Z....going to get rebuilt soon....
07 Subaru outback...Daily Driver...

#34
Ghost-One

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i got pretty good driftin n dirt did dome reall cool moves like my famouse 100ft 4 wheel slide and some really drawn out choku's but could string them together

#35
nivek2002

QUOTE (Airjockie @ Jun 18 2004, 06:00 PM)
Oh...and here's the rebuild thread for the AE85 engine....

If your bored and want a good laugh... biggrin.gif

Airjockie's POS engine

Skittle's candy, Tonka Toys, Playdough, an edible engine...all comes to mind as you read rolleyes.gif

laugh.gif I LOVED reading that!

#36
Rampage

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QUOTE (Ghost-One @ Jun 18 2004, 05:14 PM)
i got pretty good driftin n dirt  did dome reall cool moves like my famouse 100ft 4 wheel slide  and some really drawn out choku's but could string them together

What you gotta do is this, in order of difficulty:

1. Reverse 180 in snow
2. Reverse 180 in dry
3. Full 360 in snow
4. High speed drift, over correct into a reverse 180

#4 is extremely hard to pull off, and you need a lot of space... I can't get it perfect, but I can get it close.

Cheers,
Mark

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#37
Airjockie

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rolleyes.gif cake walk....



I grew up in the northern mountains of New Mexico....playing in mud, and snow for many years...
87 CRX SI, Wide body, and still not running...RB25DET?!?!?!
74 260Z....going to get rebuilt soon....
07 Subaru outback...Daily Driver...

#38
celerity

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There is cheater drift, and real drift.

Most of what you see, FF or FR is cheater drift. I hate to say it, but it's true.

Professional drift cars (mostly from Japan) have very grippy rear tires. The suspension and steering is setup to grip the turns. The drifts that they enjoy are when even THAT level of grip is pushed to the limits.

When you see people loading crappy bald tires on the rear of their cars, FF or FR, They are bypassing the gobs of power that the pros are putting down. Same for ebrake.


Given driving skill, a good (skilled) driver in a well setup car will know where the envelope of grip is. Knowing that, the pro drifter will push that envelope into a slide that truly tests the will and skill of the driver.

In Autocross, I will drift my Civic hatch. I drift my CRX as well, but I have to push it WAY beyond it's power to do so (Dive unnaturally into a corner, give it 100% power to make the rear kick out). But with the Civic all I have to do is slightly push the envelope - Then for fun I see how far I can take the drift. The car will naturally want to get back in line (being FWD, not a brag for my equipment) but if I keep not only the power going, but the turn going (Resulting in a little fishtail after the drift) I can get an impressive swing.

Drifting is about taking your car, doing your best to it, and then taking it beyond even the limits of THAT. You can take a 240SX stock and well modified 240SX (Something you would use for autocross) and the 240SX will do incredible donuts and burnouts, but a drifter will do those maneuvers at twice the speed.


I'm off my soapbox now, You may continue smile.gif

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#39
Rollin

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Sorry Mark I have not played any of the GT games for a long while. As far cheater drift and real drift (Celerity) I don't most people could tell the difference until they have actually been in both situations. But hey its all fun and games (off the street of course), I have some extra stiff coilovers and a set of fairly sticky Kumho Estca Supra 712s I am going to test out soon lets see what kinda of fun those are at the track.

[EDIT] It sounds like that is the key to a beginner drift setup and maybe disconnect the front sway bar. Which it turns out the 85 USDM 3g DX has go fig. cool.gif

[EDIT2] This is actually a pretty cool explination of techniques: http://www.driftsess...m/technique.htm

Edited by Rollin, 19 June 2004 - 02:59 AM.

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#40
Gasoline Fumes

This is my kind of drifting. biggrin.gif


#41
I are Corey

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http://kahuna.sdsu.e...ips/drift11.asf

there is a vid of two 1984 subaru REX's which are FF. VERY slow cars but when drifting you dont need to go 200 mph. but theres a good example of FF cars that drift very well. (those are tuned for drifting)

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#42
TheSneak

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dude i want one of those so freakin' bad! you could pick up sooo many chicks, well at least one.
One time Krazy Davek said his foot hurt. So he glocked it. Then he glocked his other foot just because he thought it was going to snitch, he asked it if it was and it said no, so he glocked it not only because it was going to snitch but also because it lied.When he isn't driving his 3 door 3 speed 3 cylinder geo metro with 20" spinners, he's driving his freestyle motox bike with 20" spinner dirtbike wheels in downtown NYC.

#43
celerity

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QUOTE (Rollin @ Jun 19 2004, 02:47 AM)
[EDIT]  It sounds like that is the key to a beginner drift setup and maybe disconnect the front sway bar.  Which it turns out the 85 USDM 3g DX has go fig.  cool.gif

Do NOT disconnect your sway bars ! The car will roll sooooo easily if you do that, particularly with the Ecstas.

-> Steve
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Trust, if Betrayed, Limits
Hope, if believed in, Thrives
Dreams, if realised, become true
Truth, if validated, becomes fact
Death, if accepted, calms
Life, without question, Goes on.

#44
lofreq

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good post celerity, there does seem to be so much interest now in drift, but those new to the scene might just think "rear end steps out = i drifted" - if youre in a rwd and youre turning and you gas it and the ass comes out, thats just power over - its like preschool.

a proper 'drift' would see the driver setting up his car's attitude to that necessary for the exit of the turn, BEFORE he has even entered the turn. the 'drift' then is maintaining that attitude thru the sweep of the turn. and so on for the following curves of your course.

for example if youre heading north setting up for a 'drift' 90degrees to the right (east), a drifter would do a feint, accel off, handbrake, whatever technique suitable to get the car pointing east, before the corner, then the car enters the corner (pointing east already) and maintains pointing east right thru till exit.

a cheat/newbie drifter would probably enter the turn heading north, start turning towards east, gun it, rear end steps out halfway thru the turn, oversteers, and comes out of the turn with the car facing southeast and (probably) waiting for the tires to grip and snap flick the car off the road.

'drifting' in an FF is pretty widely debated, i'll have to take the side of those who agree it cant really be done, as said here, not more than a single turn anyway. all thats happening is that you end up arse dragging using the handbrake. the only way would be what approaches an inertia drift/4wheel drift, by precise car control and 'feel' of the weight transfer, grip, etc. probably happens when youre at the limits of the car, and you have a good enuf weight distribution rearwards that the forces allow the rear end to move laterally thru the turn, rather than those same forces acting thru the front wheels ie big understeer.

ok i'll stop typing.

#45
nivek2002

I went to a Texas Drift event saturday and lemme tell yall, out of the 40 cars there only the 2 best prepared cars ever got around the course linking drifts up.

Here is my Definition:

1. Drift - When a large slip angle, at one end of the car or all four tires simultaniously, makes the car appear to drift to the outside of a turn. Any car can accomplish this on a race track.

2. Drift - A high powered RWD/AWD vehicle holds a desired slip angle through out multiple turns, linking them in a flowing fashion.

Anything other than 2 is just a power slide or locking up the tires through the turn, thus getting the car sideways. I get my Sedan to drift #1 all the time at autoX when applying the brakes hard enough.

biggrin.gif

Kevin