28 replies to this topic

[kablammyman]

Check for a fuel starvation problem.. Injectors? fuel pump going out? etc...

my bet is fuel pump. I had the same problems when mien was dying (i had 2 different tegs expirence the same symptoms)

[mn85crx]

I am having a similar issue with my rebuilt D16A1. Mine only does the lurching thing once in a while and below 3000 rpms. Above 3000 it drives perfectly normal. Like yours it seems to get more frequent the longer the car runs and the warmer it gets.

I have a new fuel filter on order, should be here in a few days, ill let you know if that changed anything. I am beginning to think it is related to the fuel system, I am going to also clean out my injectors and see what that does.

It has been asked but I don't know if you answered, do you have a check engine light or are there any codes being thrown at the ECU? I had a few on mine and cleared them up and it ran much better, not perfect but better.

There is a simple way to check your coil if you have a DMM. All you need to do is check the resistance between the contacts, I don't remember exactly how but it is in my manual at home, I will add the instructions when I get home.

A word of advice: check and double check everything before you go and buy parts. I have bought many parts that I later found out that I didnt need it. I bought a TPS sensor and turned out I had a couple wires mixed up. I bought a new coil and ignitor and it also turned out it wasn't that. I have since began checking everything I can before I go spend money.

This post may not have helped you but I think with two people having similar issues we can figure something out. Strudel was helping me out in my thread http://www.redpepper...showtopic=40212 and he pointed me to this one, like they say, two heads are better than one.

Thanks,
Scott

[badpenny]

Basically locate the stock coil on the firewall above the brake booster/master. Unplug the connectors and remove it. Cut the plugs off the wires and join the 2 black w/ yellow stripe wires together, and join the other 2 together also (can't remeber the colour). Now here's the part I can't remember off hand. One of these pairs of wires go to the + terminal on the coil and the other 2 go to the - terminal. I'd have to check my car to be sure. then plug the primary lead that goes to the distributor in and you should be good to go.

black & yellow = + (positive)
blue = - (negative.)

[Computer]

Sounds like a lean condition and its probably sensor related.

[JU5TIN]

it might also be the voltage regulator.
i know it is part of the alternator, but what you should do is check to see if the plug is firmly in place in the back of the alternator.

i had a problem similar to this except i had the symptom of the headlights going dimer the longer it was running

maybe it is not even part of what is happening and i don't know what i am talking about

but hey i'll learn something if i am wrong

Justin

[pissoffSi]

When the fuel pump go's out on a honda..its gone and Honda techs looked at that and said it was fine.
See when i bought the car it had cheap wires, bad plugs, and a battery too big for the car and a faulty vacuum advance.
I was told that when we fix the combo of these items that the car would stop the lurching/hesitating/dying in heat. WRONG.
CHANGED THE FUEL FILTER, then i took the car back to the shop and they tested the "Fast idle boost valve" the little piece that sits on back of the PGM-FI throttle body with 2 screws and a lid.
It wasnt working so they said that was the culprit, and they tell me there isnt one in existance available from honda or otherwise online. I was told it would be a needle in a haystack search......
The next day i lurch home from work and call about 30 salvage yards in Los Angeles county, mind you i live 250 miles north of LA and still nothing......
I call a salvage yard closer to home, and they just so happend to have the exact car model and year, AND the holy grail "fast idle boost valve" i needed.......
Me and my buddy drive in his car round trip 200 miles to pick it up and when installed it starts running better than it was, but then the next day when driven longer IT STARTED F-ING LURCHING HARDER THAN BEFORE!!!!!!!!!
It dosnt die as much as before but this is insane..
NO WARNING LIGHTS, NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS. IDLE IS AT 1500 RPM

I PUT A GOOD INJECTOR CLEANER IN THE CAR TODAY, AND IT RAN GOOD AFTER A FILL UP WITH THAT STUFF.
THE CAR WAS WARM AND THERE WAS ONLY A SLIGHT HESITATION BUT NOT ON THE FREEWAY. THEN 5 HOURS AFTER PARKING THE CAR I WAS CURIOUS TO SEE HOW IT WOULD PERFORM LATER WHEN COLD.......
I DROVE TO THE STORE AND IT DROVE FINE UNTIL I HAD TO SPEED UP ON AN INCLINE ONRAMP AND THEN THE SAME SHIT ALL OVER AGAIN UHH UHH UHH UHH UHH UHH UHH LURCH MC GEE.

IM JUST GOING TO SHOOT IT WITH A GUN AND BUY A HUFFY

Edited by pissoffSi, 10 October 2008 - 03:11 AM.

[RETROCRX]

I still say change the coil. Get one from a wreckers if you have to....a wrecker coil would cost less than $10.

Also.....pull the plugs and look at them. What colour are they.

Are they white? Then it's lean and it's a lean fuel issue. Then I would look at injectors, fuel system stuff, maybe the fuel pressure regulator, seeing as you have replaced everything else.

Are they Black? then it could be an ignition problem. The spark could be weak causing a misfiring cylinder. then i would check the coil first. You've replaced everything else in the ignition system.

Your idle at 1500 is too high BTW......idle should be just a tick under 1000rpm.

That's the most help I can give based on the info I've got.......unless you want to fly me down from Toronto to Cali to look at it with you!?

Good Luck

Rob

Edited by RETROCRX, 10 October 2008 - 08:08 AM.

[RALPHMACHIO]

An easy way to give the ignition coil a quick check is to remove a plug and re attach it to the wire and ground the threaded area. Disable the other 3 plugs so the engine wont start (unplug them from the dist or whatever). Watch out for flammable stuff! Have someone crank the engine and look at the spark. If it is orange then that is bad-should be white or blue. Make sure the batt has 12.47+ volts or else that will cause weak spark for the test also (I think).

[strudel]

You now have another used FIV. Did you replace any of the o-rings in it? There are four. One under the lid, two on the rear and one on the idle adjusting screw. My memory is bad but there is probably one more on the big plastic screw inside. Did you adjust this at all after the car was warm? You will need a very wide blade or chisel to turn this unit.

When the engine is warm the wax thermo valve should extend the plunger to it's max upper limit. It probably doesn't move up more than 1/4". Just snug the plastic screw up to it when hot.

THIS SOLUTION IS ONLY FOR SURGING IDLE AT REST If you have surging or power loss under power it is most likely a different problem.

In this picture you can see the parts in the FIV. See, it does have an o-ring. The cone seats into the plastic screw when the temperature is at normal temperature and closes off the bypass. Be gentle when tightening. You may have to try various settings till you get it perfect. Make sure you get all the carbon out when you clean it. Also adjust the idle set screw.

If yours still doesn't work I have 4-5 of these in my parts drawer. Make me an offer for one plus shipping. JS



I also love the first line on this page. And the part about buying a new one if it doesn't work. It is just leaking air and causing the problem, most of the time anyway. Once you have new o-rings and things still are wonky you probably have a different issue. One other possibility is the Idle Control Solenoid Valve in the black box. Tell us how you make out with this.

[RARECRX]

Is there any codes in the ECU? These are not like newer honda's and the check engine flashes codes.. You have to look at the ECU.

..CHECK SPARK.Are the gaps in the plugs correct If they are too big then it will surge under load. Did you try a new coil like some people stated? Are you arcing anywhere from the wires.. DISTRIBUTOR (not the cap or rotor) ITSELF BAD? (mine did this when my distributor was on its way out)..

If all this is good then go for fuel.. check fuel pressure, regulator,injectors, etc. Best bet is find a mechanically inclined RPR buddy close to you and help out..

If all else fails I will buy you a HUFFY and give me your car..

[pissoffSi]

I still say change the coil. Get one from a wreckers if you have to....a wrecker coil would cost less than $10.

Also.....pull the plugs and look at them. What colour are they.

Are they white? Then it's lean and it's a lean fuel issue. Then I would look at injectors, fuel system stuff, maybe the fuel pressure regulator, seeing as you have replaced everything else.

Are they Black? then it could be an ignition problem. The spark could be weak causing a misfiring cylinder. then i would check the coil first. You've replaced everything else in the ignition system.

Your idle at 1500 is too high BTW......idle should be just a tick under 1000rpm.

That's the most help I can give based on the info I've got.......unless you want to fly me down from Toronto to Cali to look at it with you!?

Good Luck

Rob

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP EVERYONE, the plugs as i remember right are black around the bottom of the threading...
Next paycheck im going to swap out the coil, adjust the idle, check the fuel pressure.....

on the good news aspect,,,,,,, The injector cleaner i put in the tank (THANKS cbstdscott) seems to be doing a good job the longer i drive with it in its system, the power is better, it isnt bogging as much, and when it dose it quickly smooths out so i guess the injectors being clogged was one of the problems..... Next tank im pouring another bottle of the injector cleaner in and we'll see if it keeps helping.......

Edited by pissoffSi, 11 October 2008 - 05:01 AM.

[pissoffSi]

You now have another used FIV. Did you replace any of the o-rings in it? There are four. One under the lid, two on the rear and one on the idle adjusting screw. My memory is bad but there is probably one more on the big plastic screw inside. Did you adjust this at all after the car was warm? You will need a very wide blade or chisel to turn this unit.

When the engine is warm the wax thermo valve should extend the plunger to it's max upper limit. It probably doesn't move up more than 1/4". Just snug the plastic screw up to it when hot.

THIS SOLUTION IS ONLY FOR SURGING IDLE AT REST If you have surging or power loss under power it is most likely a different problem.

In this picture you can see the parts in the FIV. See, it does have an o-ring. The cone seats into the plastic screw when the temperature is at normal temperature and closes off the bypass. Be gentle when tightening. You may have to try various settings till you get it perfect. Make sure you get all the carbon out when you clean it. Also adjust the idle set screw.

If yours still doesn't work I have 4-5 of these in my parts drawer. Make me an offer for one plus shipping. JS



I also love the first line on this page. And the part about buying a new one if it doesn't work. It is just leaking air and causing the problem, most of the time anyway. Once you have new o-rings and things still are wonky you probably have a different issue. One other possibility is the Idle Control Solenoid Valve in the black box. Tell us how you make out with this.

VERY GOOD INFO FOR EVERYONE THANKS, i dont remember if i even have o rings on the bloody thing, and i sure didnt adjust it...Plug and play damn it, see you back here tomorrow

Edited by pissoffSi, 11 October 2008 - 05:26 AM.

[cbstdscott]

We are all here to help you get this car running right.

The Karma on this Site is HUGE!

Scott

[strudel]

A small update to this problem if you can't find parts.

 

Sadly I don't have any more complete units and the one left over has the big plastic screw missing. They can easily be resurrected with a little care. First replace the o-rings as they get brittle over time and leak. You will feel how hard they are or cracked when you take them out. Do the fast idle screw first and see if that solves the issue. Then the one under the lid. Those are the easiest to fix. If that doesn't work there are the 2 on the outside body. Last but not least is the one on the large plastic screw itself. Use a wide chisel to unscrew it and get a new ring. Be careful with the threads as it is only plastic.

 

Then clean all the carbon out but make sure you remember how the pieces inside fall out to get them back the same way. Then comes the fun part and adjusting it. There is a thermo wax thing in the bottom that raises a pin that pushes the cone you took out into the hole in the plastic screw that seals off the air when hot and resumes normal idle. Here is where it gets a bit tricky to do right and not to damage anything.

 

I did it in a pot of boiling water to raise the pin. Then gently screwed the plastic screw down one turn at a time. You have to seal off a couple of small holes with your fingers and then blow into the outer holes to see if it seats and no air gets through. I hope you are a contortionist??  Alternatively leave it on the car and bring to temp so that the pin rises. Then gently start screwing in the plastic screw until the idle seems normal.  If you go to far there will be too much pressure on the pin in the bottom. Adjust the idle screw to proper rpm. 

 

That's as best of an explanation I can give to help you out. There is no magic just a bit of trial and error with the big screw. Perhaps a light coating of lithium grease so the o-rings don't contort when screwing things down. I went to a commercial seal company so that they could take the MM size of each ring but sometimes you are lucky and can find them in a hardware store. Thickness let alone diameter is important. Hope that helps. JS