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Ew/d16 Hybrid


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#1
gtpilot

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I’ll try and chronicle as much of this as I can and take pictures, where important, as well. I have put them in a gallery EW/D16 Hybrid - HYDRA.


-TJ and I have been working with GhettoDyne (GD) and EcuControl (EC) on some of his cars for a little while now. I had expressed my desire of getting electronic advance distributing on my EW motors to be able to run the same ECU’s that we had modified for GD and EC. We went down the path of looking at how to modify the appropriate distributor to make a hybrid, I kept coming up with problems that were costly to overcome (in my opinion – BTW Tom, that distributor is in its final resting place…). One day (I guess after using –TJ’s parts cleaner, because the answer should have been obvious from the start) we realized that the 1st generation Integra heads had the same bolt pattern as the EW blocks. I have been using 1st generation Integra head gaskets on my EW race motors for years and it took –TJ’s solvent to crack open the old gray matter. There is another reason for doing this – DOHC without having to change transmissions, knuckles, linkages, etc. So, this is how far we have come.

The block is built with stock rods fitted with ARP rod bolts, then resized. I chose the stronger rod bolts because they are $50 a set and I wanted the added insurance for the higher revs the motor will see with the new electronics. I used Total Seal rings on 86-87 Integra Pistons – they are a 1mm overbore and will yield about 9.2:1 CR. I stayed with the low CR (the 88-89 Integra piston will yield about 9.6:1 CR) because we plan on boosting the motor after we get the ECU programming under control. A word of caution about Total Seal rings, they use a different cross hatch pattern than the stock Honda rings for the hone and take longer to seat properly – they like more pressure on them during the seating process.

Even though the pistons sit out of the top of the bore by 0.25mm, there appears to be adequate clearance to prevent the piston and valve dance that is bad JUJU– about 2mm. The reason the piston sticks out is the fact the EW block has a shorter deck height than the D16, but it also helps get back some compression from the shorter stroke (86.5 vs. 90) and the large combustion chamber volume (33.7cc vs. 43.8). This was done with stock camshafts, but it appears that some reasonable regrind cams would work also.

I used the 89 Integra head (donated by –TJ, thank you!) to get the electronic advance and ECU programmability. You could use the 86-87 head and stay vacuum advance, but there is no way to reprogram the fuel curves that I know of…seemingly, you would get an engine that would just run lean and not make optimal power. I ported and polished the head as can be seen in the pictures. You can also see the EW headgasket sitting on top of the head – the only place that it is off is where the cylinder posts join together. This is easily solved by using the Integra head gasket…but hey, I had an old EW gasket to use for mocking this stuff up, so why not?

After doing the trial assembly, all the clearances were good and the motor turned over freely by hand. The head was pulled and I took the head gasket and measured the crush around the area where the cylinders are and I was impressed to see how even it was (you’ll understand why I did this when you read the problems…or maybe you won’t – just ask).

The plan is to use the stock IM/EM to get things up and running, then to go from there with a possible turbo build.

The problems I have encountered so far…

The center head bolt on the intake side has to be a long one because the Integra head has the oil feed for the second camshaft and it passes through that space. –TJ gave me a couple of bolts, the stock head bolt from an Integra that went there and a bottom end bolt that was longer yet from an Integra block. Problem is that they are 11x1.5 thread and the EW is 10x1.25 thread. So, drilling and taping that one location in the block is required. Since we have plans to turbo the motor we had some concerns about the threads we were making. Drilling out the old threads would still leave a small portion of them untouched and we would essentially be cross threading new threads through a potion of the threads, making them weaker. You can just use the Integra head bolt – it has about 15mm of thread engagement – but it is in the weaker threads. The other option is to drill deeper in the block and put threads down as far as the tap will reach – which is the solution for this block. Taking the longer main bolt and cutting it down by about 6mm was in order to get rid of some of the length. It turns out that the bolt bottomed out in the threads with about 3mm of clearance to the head…DAMN! The solution I am going to use is to put two additional hardened washers under the bolt head to keep the bolt from bottoming out.

The dip stick tube is block by the center stud for the EM. I used a pair of vise grips and grabbed the base of the tube and rotated it back and forth while pulling up on it. It is a light press fit and comes out with a little persuasion. I then reformed the tube to clear the stud, then applied a little Honda Bond and tapped it back into the hole in the block with a small hammer. If you look closely at the side view/close up of the tube, you can see the teeth marks from the vise grips. Just be careful not to crush the tube from being over zealous with the vise grips or while bending.

If you use the stock EM, the flange that is to bolt to the block is a little low because of the shorter deck height in the block. I used a die grinder and just slotted the hole to make it work. No picture yet, but I’ll get one eventually.

The IM bolts up fine, but the supports for it are in the wrong place – it wants to go through the oil filter. I am pretty sure I will have to make a custom bracket, if I do. The crank case breather tube does match the Integra IM – it looks as though it can be easily solved, but I have not got there yet. When I get the IM out of the hot tank I’ll take some pictures of the solution.

The timing belt is going to a problem…again that deck height issue. I am going to –TJ’s tonight to pick up an assortment of old belts to play around with. I believe the eventual solution will bit a spacer or tube that goes over the stock tensioner to make it a larger diameter. That should take up enough of the extra length in the belt that we don’t need.

Of course, there will be electrical issues in converting to the new ECU with all the sensors it needs…but that is for a later date.

Sorry for being so long winded and not taking enough pictures - I'll try and work on that for the second installment.

Kirk

Edited by gtpilot, 17 October 2005 - 11:53 AM.


#2
CRX8Grand

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bah, I was hoping someone could adapt those distribs to the motor.. but looks like it isnt to promising....

bah, I might have to turbo with the Apexi hack for now... I hope it will work like it does for the 88+ cars....

Last resort for me is building a black top a1 or ZC or just taking the plung into B series territory.

So it seems like the head isnt the easiest bolt on afair... I just wonder if the bolt patter is simlar for a6 blocks.. but I doubt it...

Damn it, and I have a rebuilt EW4 with 14k on it and I want to boost it, Standalone is outa the question.....more like the price range.

Keep us updated..

I am now kicking myself for not taking the black top a1 I was offered with ALL the wiring harnesses tranny, ECU and even a DC header for 800 bucks4 years ago when I needed a motor.. BAH! Im gonna go get a 2nd gen rolleyes.gif

~2009 Civic Si 4dr~


#3
Guest_-TJ_*

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If my memory serves correctly, Kirk was going to use an A6 head on the EW block originally. One of the head mounting bolts doesn't quite line up, but with a mill, the hole in the head could easily be dragged into position.

I don't think it's out of the question to adapt a newer electronic advance distributor to the EW head. It's just a matter of making a donut, and addressing the 3 leg positions...

Keep your 1G and get a 2G. That's what I did.

Edited by -TJ, 01 July 2003 - 08:53 PM.


#4
xxpaulcpxx

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Well, I figure the first one to do it AND write it up gets to name it. I personally was going with "Hydra" if I was the first. What about ZCa3? Or ZW3? or EW31?

#5
celerity

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Hydra: Many heads, one body. Sounds about right. smile.gif

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Life, without question, Goes on.

#6
sdubfid

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Many people will aprreciate this write up.

Edited by sdubfid, 17 September 2003 - 11:16 PM.


#7
Kain

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will it still be called the same with an 86-87 integra head? that's what i'm planning on doing.
Ay!
Ay, dog, ay!
You stepped on my sneaker meng!

#8
gtpilot

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Hmmm...never thought about naming it, perhaps we should just create a poll after we get some sugestions of names thrown up here. I am still waiting for Ghost-One to chime in - somewhere in that insane creativeness of his deeper self looms a serious name...

-TJ gave me some belts last night and it looks like there is a fairly simple route with the original D16 belt. Normally with the EW block the belt comes directly from the water pump up to the SOHC - that makes its path miss the bolts on the water pump housing. When you use the D16 head, the belt path is almost vertical and it will surely rub against the face of one of the water pump bolts.

So, the idea is to fabricate a small bracket and bolt it to one of the bosses that I believe was originally intended for the power steering pump. The bracket would then have a static tensioner bolted to it - I will just use another of the tensioners that came on the EW block. It will serve three purposes - get the belt length right, make the belt miss the bolt and provide more teeth in contact with the cam timing gear. If the belt is tensioned in some other fashion, the intake cam gear has less than 90 degrees of belt contact - not very good design intent. The exhaust cam gear is fine, it is over 90 degrees.

I am not sure how much time, if any, I will get on the project this weekend. I'll try not to have too much time lapse between updates as I know that it kills the interest level.

Kirk

#9
Guest_-TJ_*

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Not to mention you're excited to drive your new creation...

#10
CRX8Grand

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QUOTE (-TJ @ Jul 1 2003, 08:53 PM)
Keep your 1G and get a 2G.  That's what I did.

I already got a 2nd gen teggy, no need for a 3rd car while I still live with my parents... haha.

I think my buddy wants to try it.. were both McGuivers on this stuff so we might do it...

If it turns out to be to rediculas I might end up looking for a set of sidedrafts and just go that route... i can always slap a turbo on the integra.

Edited by CRX8Grand, 02 July 2003 - 12:52 PM.

~2009 Civic Si 4dr~


#11
cbstdscott

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Concering the clearance proble with the IM and the oil filter:

Maybe a remotely mounted oil filter kit would sovle that problem.

Good Luck and keep us informed!

Scott
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#12
UltimX

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I was thinking the same thing as cbstdscott. Also, you might aswell fabricate a new intake manifold. That way it would fit properly in the holes so you don't have to retap and also more performance. I looked at my A6 IM and I could probably construct one within a day givin all the right parts. All the sensors are just bolt on anyways, just weld on some nuts and tighten it down. then add which ever TB you want and have a nicely prduced engine with car. This is just a suggestion.

#13
UltimX

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oh yeah, as for the timing belt, this is just and idea but you can change the belt to chain driven. This makes it easy to adjust so you can make the chain smaller and larger. Also, i know you fixed the dip stick tube but you can use the adjustable ones or whatever they are called and have it moved. They are like steel braded lines which you can contoure to the position you like. I thought that was interesting. Lastly, (its late and i'm coming up with crazy ideas) you can just cut up the IM and weld it back with an other IM which would be easier in some aspects. But I still think a custom IM would be better. tHis way it gives you ideal performance, be ported and polished, and be the best in performance issues.

#14
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QUOTE (CRX8Grand @ Jul 2 2003, 10:50 AM)
I already got a 2nd gen teggy, no need for a 3rd car while I still live with my parents... haha.

No need for a 3rd car?! That attitude won't cut it around here mister. If I got another Honda car, the tally would be 6 that I own. They all run and drive.

#15
83Rabbit

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you get the forum star for the month

*hands to you a '*' *

enjoy it.... you own the forums, all hail to the allmighty who is answering the long awaited question....

Edited by 83Rabbit, 03 July 2003 - 11:26 AM.

1986 Grabber Blue CRX Si: K&N Filter, koni reds, air/fuel guage, msd blaster ss, ss lines, teg front/rear brakes.

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