91 replies to this topic

[J-MAN]

All I know is that both guys I talked to at Delta cams said you need tuneable fuel systems. I'm not trying to argue with you, that's just what they told me when I called about getting one for myself. Supposedly the street version drops in, and the 272 you have is a sportier version that needs a better fuel setup. Take from it what you will, it very well may be some other problem, I really don't know.

Just got off the phone with delta and they said the cam was absolutely fine with a factory fuel system in our cars, but thank you for your input lymitliss. I told them about my situation and they believe it to be a vacuum leak which I'll have to look further into that. At the moment still attempting to fix the whole spark plug issue.

Jon

[Lymitliss]

I have no idea which guy you're talking to, two guys from Delta told me that this morning... I actually want the cam you have but they talked me out of it because of that, so if you figure it out let me know! I want that one anyway... good luck!

[Rampage]

Valve lash won't be the cause unless by some mistake you used a pencil as your feeler gauge when adjusting them. Basically the lash adjustment takes most of the free play out of the valve train to allow for quiet running operation.

If you messed that up you would have heard a loud top end noise and probably shut the engine down.

As the car was perfect before starting, something with the cam or distributor is now out.


I will second that you re-check cam timing. Its not enough to put the belt off and on again, you have to install the belt, then rotate the crankshaft two revolutions counter-clockwise and re-check the marks.

The method to tension the timing belt is as follows:

1. Have the full bottom end of the timing set together, with the tensioner a few turns loose.
2. Rotate the crankshaft to TDC (lone white mark) <--- this step has a trick and actually is the wrong information
3. Make sure the camshaft has both marks at 90 degrees and 270 degrees level with the head with all valves on #1 cyl closed (this makes sure you are on the end of the exhaust stroke, beginning of the intake stroke. If you are 180 degrees out, you can't just rotate the cam because of valve interference, rotate the crank 90 degrees to put all the pistons at mid-cylinder)
4. Install the timing belt onto the camshaft
5. Rotate the crankshaft three teeth counter clockwise to tension the belt and tighten the tensioner pulley.
6. Rotate the crankshaft two revolutions counter clockwise and re-check your marks. Taking the spark plugs out makes this easier but isn't necessary

The interesting thing about this method is that when you do rotate the crank to tension the belt, you effectively have now retarded the timing one tooth. I'VE MADE THIS MISTAKE A BILLION TIMES! Its actually very frustrating and you have to anticipate this extra play in the belt when setting up the cam timing.

I found that if you put the crank at the most advanced timing mark position (left of red) when you rotate the crank to tension the belt you end up exactly where you need to be.

Just check your marks now, crank at TDC and your cam notches level with the head. If you suspect it to be out, try the above method to reset your timing.

Last thing I will say is that the left of red mark is an approximation (and what I remember) so make sure you rotate the crank twice counterclockwise to check your work. It might actually be between the timing marks and TDC, I'm not 100% there, but advancing the crank in anticipation for the belt slack is key!

Good luck, keep us posted.

Edited by Rampage, 18 November 2009 - 09:02 PM.

[J-MAN]

Valve lash won't be the cause unless by some mistake you used a pencil as your feeler gauge when adjusting them. Basically the lash adjustment takes most of the free play out of the valve train to allow for quiet running operation.

If you messed that up you would have heard a loud top end noise and probably shut the engine down.

As the car was perfect before starting, something with the cam or distributor is now out.


I will second that you re-check cam timing. Its not enough to put the belt off and on again, you have to install the belt, then rotate the crankshaft two revolutions counter-clockwise and re-check the marks.

The method to tension the timing belt is as follows:

1. Have the full bottom end of the timing set together, with the tensioner a few turns loose.
2. Rotate the crankshaft to TDC (lone white mark) <--- this step has a trick and actually is the wrong information
3. Make sure the camshaft has both marks at 90 degrees and 270 degrees level with the head with all valves on #1 cyl closed (this makes sure you are on the end of the exhaust stroke, beginning of the intake stroke. If you are 180 degrees out, you can't just rotate the cam because of valve interference, rotate the crank 90 degrees to put all the pistons at mid-cylinder)
4. Install the timing belt onto the camshaft
5. Rotate the crankshaft three teeth counter clockwise to tension the belt and tighten the tensioner pulley.
6. Rotate the crankshaft two revolutions counter clockwise and re-check your marks. Taking the spark plugs out makes this easier but isn't necessary

The interesting thing about this method is that when you do rotate the crank to tension the belt, you effectively have now retarded the timing one tooth. I'VE MADE THIS MISTAKE A BILLION TIMES! Its actually very frustrating and you have to anticipate this extra play in the belt when setting up the cam timing.

I found that if you put the crank at the most advanced timing mark position (left of red) when you rotate the crank to tension the belt you end up exactly where you need to be.

Just check your marks now, crank at TDC and your cam notches level with the head. If you suspect it to be out, try the above method to reset your timing.

Last thing I will say is that the left of red mark is an approximation (and what I remember) so make sure you rotate the crank twice counterclockwise to check your work. It might actually be between the timing marks and TDC, I'm not 100% there, but advancing the crank in anticipation for the belt slack is key!

Good luck, keep us posted.

I actually noticed this when I was resetting the timing and wound up redoing this twice lol. Unfortunately cylinder ones spark plug hole is stripped so I'm weighing my options with a tap or helicoil or just swapping all the parts over to my spare ported head and starting over and praying that solves my issues.
Jon

[Lymitliss]

Try Timecert, it's the one Honda recommends and it's a good system.

[J-MAN]

Car is back up and running, thank you rampage as your little tidbit saved me alot of time. Lymitliss the car is running great with cam I would definitely recommend the delta 272 to anyone. Btw the only fuel system mods I have are an adjustable fpr and integra injectors and the car runs great. Now its time for a new throttle body, but no luck finding a new one or an adapter plate for a newer throttle body yet . Thanks rpr for all your input, Jon

[J-MAN]

Well the idle problem has risen from the dead and come back to haunt my crx. Car idles fine while cold, but the second it warms up its struggles and dies unless I press the gas to rev it up. But as soon as I let go of the gas it drops belows 1000 rpm and dies. As of now I'm not sure what it can be, cam timing is set at an even 20 degrees advance and vavle lash is perfect. Last night the car drove perfectly but this morning the car began with its schenanigans again and left me stranded on down the block. Car will restart eventually after it cools off and then the problems starts again as soon as it warms up. So far when I get home I'm going to check for vacuum leaks, but I do not believe this is the problem. Could it be the fast idle air control? how can I diagnose if this is the prolem, any way to check pull it off the car and check it? Also remember reading about problems with the fuel pump relay that could possibly cause similar symptoms? Any other ideas rpr? Jon

[J-MAN]

Anyone? Started the car tonight and same issue but if I held the throttle lightly and kept it alive for a good 5 minutes the cars idle returned to normal, but after more time of idle and playing with the throttle, it develops the idle issue again. I am honestly clueless as to what this could be attributed to...

[Hairy'85si]

Have you checked for any codes on the ecu? I have read the whole thread and did not see any mention. This is an important possibility. If you have a problem with the map sensor or the O2 sensor the fuel system can not operate properly. This will cause the symptom you are describing.

[Lymitliss]

Figure it out quick, I wanna get my cam soon! haha

[E-Man]

Have you checked for any codes on the ecu? I have read the whole thread and did not see any mention. This is an important possibility. If you have a problem with the map sensor or the O2 sensor the fuel system can not operate properly. This will cause the symptom you are describing.

this is exactly what Jon and I discussed last night. I've seen an O2 code thrown from the timing being off after a belt change. We'll be working on this over the Holiday. A certain someone is going to owe me some labor hours to help get ULT1GCRX back together for springtime!

Elliot

(mysteriously absent from this thread but could keep silent no more)

[cbstdscott]

A devacc'ed engine with a radical cam and a owner-mechanic... what could go wrong?

Let's start with the Integra injectors. They flow WAY TOO MUCH for your engine, even with the trick cam. Go back to stock injectors and use your FPR to raise the fuel pressure to the correct air/fuel ratio for your car. A Wide band O2 sensor is good, time on a dyno is even better for tuning.

The stock injectors with higher fuel pressure atomize fuel much better than Integra injectors with the fuel presure turned way down low.

Too much injector = rich mixture = a ruined O2 sensor. Stock O2 sensors are OK for most purposes and are relatively inexpensive.

Are you 100% CERTAIN that you have your cam timed correctly? Just ask'n.

Scott

[J-MAN]

A devacc'ed engine with a radical cam and a owner-mechanic... what could go wrong?

Let's start with the Integra injectors. They flow WAY TOO MUCH for your engine, even with the trick cam. Go back to stock injectors and use your FPR to raise the fuel pressure to the correct air/fuel ratio for your car. A Wide band O2 sensor is good, time on a dyno is even better for tuning.

The stock injectors with higher fuel pressure atomize fuel much better than Integra injectors with the fuel presure turned way down low.

Too much injector = rich mixture = a ruined O2 sensor. Stock O2 sensors are OK for most purposes and are relatively inexpensive.

Are you 100% CERTAIN that you have your cam timed correctly? Just ask'n.

Scott

Well Scott I'm going by the build sheet that was given to me by the P.O. which says it has integra injectors (but the build sheet was put together by the owner before that), is there a way I can identify which injectors are in it (maybe the P.O. replaced the injectors with a set of SI ones... idk)? I'm 105% sure the cam timing and valve lash are correct as I had my mechanic double check it when I had the cylinder #1 spark plug hole re-tapped (car is set to 20 degrees advanced (when I bought it, timing was set at 28 degrees advanced)). How can I check if the O2 sensor is ruined? My Dad seems to think its the map sensor or fast idle air control, but we are unsure. I just don't understand why this problem is erratic which leads me to think it's something electrical. If I can figure this out by Sunday night the car is going back to my mechanic as I need to get to school on Tuesday. Jon

[E-Man]

Well Scott I'm going by the build sheet that was given to me by the P.O. which says it has integra injectors (but the build sheet was put together by the owner before that), is there a way I can identify which injectors are in it (maybe the P.O. replaced the injectors with a set of SI ones... idk)? I'm 105% sure the cam timing and valve lash are correct as I had my mechanic double check it when I had the cylinder #1 spark plug hole re-tapped (car is set to 20 degrees advanced (when I bought it, timing was set at 28 degrees advanced)). How can I check if the O2 sensor is ruined? My Dad seems to think its the map sensor or fast idle air control, but we are unsure. I just don't understand why this problem is erratic which leads me to think it's something electrical. If I can figure this out by Sunday night the car is going back to my mechanic as I need to get to school on Tuesday. Jon

too early to speculate son. It's most likely not the fast idle control valve as there isn't any surging on the idle. When it held under temp, it was a bit rough which could be expected with the aggressive cam.

I want to check the ecu first for codes then move on. The higher idle compensated for the teg injectors. It ran fine with the Si cam/advance. I'm more worried that the stock MAP can't handle the cam. Will recheck the timing again just for my comfort..

Elliot

[thatguytommy]

I know this will suck. But why not put the si cam back in and see if it dose . if it runs good then its the cam . And id if still runs like crap then you other problems. Like I said at frist it will suck to change it. But atlest you will know if its the cam. Please keep me posted cause I also have a delta 272 cam.