98 replies to this topic

[RETROCRX]

The t bar works because what you see on the outside is the torsion tube and the bar is inside. So the flange that bolts to the end of the beam is actually the torsion tube and only the little lever in the middle is moving. That's why welding the lever to the flange plate works, you're basically weling the t-bar to the torsion tube.......yah follow?

[Grant Bailey]

I can attest that RETROCRX's part is killer. I have one on my car and it really was night and day with and without it.

The only issue I had with it is that the load it placed on my swaybar link and bushings snapped the link right in two. I thought the car was handling a little sloppy, checked it out and sure enough, no swaybar at all! My solution was maybe not as elegant as Aren's, mine included some solid brass bushings, a stack of structural washers, 1/2" bolts and 1/4" plate links.

I didn't paint it to save weight.

As soon as I figure out how to create a galllery, I'll upload some pics I took.

[toxicshit]

ok i get it now but why would you like te remove it ? just to reduce the unsprung weight ? or does it have some other performance gains ?

Greetings Erwin

[RETROCRX]

When you put the plate in and remove the bar, you in effect make the rear beam the rear sway bar. So you more than double the rear roll stiffness of the car. Which in turn takes the car from understeer bias to a very neutral if not slightly oversteer bias. You also lose about 10lbs of unsprung weight by removing the t-bar.

Edited by RETROCRX, 10 February 2005 - 09:22 PM.

[toxicshit]

When you put the plate in and remove the bar, you in effect make the rear beam the rear sway bar.  So you more than double the rear roll stiffness of the car.  Which in turn takes the car from understeer bias to a very neutral if not slightly oversteer bias.  You also lose about 10lbs of unsprung weight by removing the t-bar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this info comes at a greath time, removed the rear axle etc today and i was going to put a integra axle on there tomorrow so i can use the disk brakes

i think i have to go and weld some shit does annyone want to share the drawings or a cad/cam of it ?

Greetings Erwin

[RETROCRX]

Weld the T-bar as shown here (Between the lever and the flange) and cut the rest of the torsion bar off. This will do the same as the lock plate.
Initially I only made to lock plate to see if I would like the handling characterisitcs with a welded bar. I did, so now I have the bar welded and have cut the rest of the T-bar off.

A tip though. To ensure eveything will be straight after welding, take the T-bar out of the beam to weld it. Then cut the excess off after you're done.

[Disco Stu]

AAAaaaaahhhh, NOW I get it. The way it looked in the Helms manual made it look like it was one piece, not the tube and the center part that is bushed to the trailing arm. That makes the welded piece a few posts down on the first page make so much more sense. Now I get it!

I feel so shmaaaht now!

[rexsk8er]

Aren, any pics installed? That is awesome! Good welds, what kind of motion were you giving it? I find that on fillit welds you have to give it sort of a swirling motion sort of ovals to create a nice dime affect. Anyways, nice part!




Sean

[toxicshit]

sweet i really never seen anny info about this maybe someone should make this one a FAQ and all i need to do now if weld it together.

i think im going to do this on the CRX piece and test it because if it wont work for me than ill have a bigger swaybar bar from the integra left to replace it.

CRX Si Rear internal sway bar 15mm.
Integra SE Rear internal sway bar 19mm.

Greetings Erwin.

[87MugenProCR-X]

Couldnt you just take out the whole torsion bar if the arm is welded instead of cutting it? i dont see what the difference iswhy not just take off teh whole bar?

Julian

[RETROCRX]

The t-bar doesn't "come out" it has to be cut. It's not like the front t-bars.

[rpr]

Also as an aside, Tom's 1300 Civic doesn't have the t-bar but I am willing to bet that it still has the swing bearing meaning before Tom made the teg front bar work.....he had no rear sway bar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about that. I can't see where the bearing could be, although I've not looked that closely.

[RETROCRX]

I'll bet it's there Tom.....I can't see Honda or anyone offering a road car with that much roll stiffness from the factory....OK maybe a proper sports car but not a cheap little econobox. If it doesn't have the bearing it will have something in there. The ride would be too harsh for Honda to have offered it with a solid rear end. Besides, the swing bearing is almost impossible to see unless you take the trailing arm off of the beam. I didn't even know it was there until I stripped the back end on RETROCRX.....

[rpr]

Huh. Makes sense.

[Aren D.]

Allright I installed it here are the pics and sorts:

Wheel removed ...


iner bushing pressed in and plate painted black:


Here is my home made press:



Geting the t-bar out was a bitch, I did not feel like taking apart the brakes and rebleading them so I just unhooked the entire asmbly:


Here it is installed, I some how lost one of my bolts and looked for it for about 20 min before getting too frustrated and I just used a temperaly bot for the top until I can find the one that is suspoe to go there.


As you can see my awsome spray paint job is allready chiping off... oh well I live in CA it wont rust anyway.


Here is the 89 integra T-bar... I weighed it and it is 8.8 lbs, my plate is 1pound!


Here is the stiffness test I jacked up one side to see and thats how far I got before the other tire lifted off the gound... oh and if you are wondering the reason all my suspension is stock is becasue of winter I drive my car to the ski park all the time ... and now my champ white is brown


all right good day guys... oh and I am just going to through in this old pic becasue I like it...

Edited by Aren D., 11 February 2005 - 02:49 AM.