14 replies to this topic

[frank5079]

I've got an '86 Civic with the '89 teg swapped in; so far here are the issues I'm facing. I've replaced the round Civic engine connector with the teg connector and all the wires matched except for a blue wire which has no equivalent Civic match. Second, I've got a vss from the '89 donor teg which I've bolted to the back of my cluster. I'm trying to isolate the teg 10 pin male connector and the sub harness so I can plug it onto the ECU. Third, I've installed the teg underhood fuse box and am in the process of sorting its wires and hopefully get them to connect them to the Civic main fuse panel.

Is there an easier way of doing this swap? Do any of you guys have some words of advice or tips to make this wiring job easier?

TIA,
Frank

[lxndr]

Are you using the '89 A1 engine harness along with the stock SI harness?

What is the pin location of the blue wire?

When I wired my car, I used the Teg engine harness along with parts of the Teg main harness spliced into my stock CRX SI harness. I also had 1 extra blue wire left over from the SI harness in the round connector. I removed this wire because the Teg main harness had another blue wire that needed to be there. I can take a look and tell you where this wire goes.

Also I found it easier to use the SI main fuse box (located on strut tower) and just remove the ELD from the Teg main fuse box. I installed the ELD on the inside of the firewall just above the grommet for the wiring. This way I could easily splice it into a main power wire, it's out of the way and the wires were just long enough to reach the ECU.

The VSS is simple to wire in, just run one wire from the ECU to the VSS then ground the other wire. The little box connected to the VSS is not needed unless you want cruise control. You know that your speedometer readings will be off with the Integra VSS right?

I also cut all the wires that run to the stock SI emission control box and pulled them back into the interior of the car. I also traced and cut these wires at the ECU where they became the wires for the brake switch, VSS, hot run and start (#A17 at the ECU), and pretty much anything else that needed to run across the dash ecxept for the distributor power wire. For the distributor power wire, I cut the black/yellow wire with the bullet connector on the end and used it to extend the other black/yellow wire across the dash over to the 8p connector. This was the only new wire that I needed to run.

Print this out: http://www.redpepper...ng/aaj.pdf.html
It will help you more than any other piece of information!

Edited by lxndr, 01 November 2005 - 10:54 PM.

[lxndr]

The blue (bu) wire is located at pin #7 in the round main engine connetor #C76. It runs from the ECU Pin #B5 to the alternator connector #C14 pin #2.

The only other blue wire is for the distributor and is located in connector #C78 pin #8 (8P connector next to round main connector). This wire comes off of your existing distributor wire and connects to the Integra harness/distributor.

The pin numbers will only make sense if you have printed out the factory wiring diagram linked above.

As for the 10 pin connector at the ECU, are you refering to the B connector? If so, I just used a connector and wiring that I pulled from a junk yard Teg. There were so many wiring changes that needed to be made here that it was just easier for me to swap the B connector and splice it into my existing wiring.

Edited by lxndr, 02 November 2005 - 04:08 PM.

[strudel]

You know that your speedometer readings will be off with the Integra VSS right?

Please elaborate on this tidbit of info. Is it something to do with the pulses it receives? They both should receive 4 pulses per revolution. I would think the Integra and CRX/Civic would have the same revolutions coming from the speedometer cable as they have the same size wheels. Just a guess here. I suppose it would help to know where the cable gear in the tranny gets it input from. If this has any bearing or not.

Since I have the HF VSS it is reading dead accurate on the speedo. From what I can see with the size difference in the speedo heads and their respective trip meters the gearing is done in the head itself to accommodate the different size of trip meters and gauge faces. I was having a problem when I had the US speedo head as it was reading 10 MPH over on average but with the CDM cluster it is working fine. All I did was swap the VSS from one to the other.

I guess if I was in an experimentation mood I could put the Teg VSS into my CDM KPH head and see if it is accurate or not. JS

[lxndr]

The difference is internal with the speedometers.

If you look at the MPH increments on the CRX vs the Teg, you'll find that the distance between the numbers are closer together on the Teg speedo face. Also, the Teg speedo goes up to 130 MPH with less needle travel than the SI has going up to 120 MPH. This leads me to believe that the Teg speedo has slightly different gearing in the speedo itself. This means that if you screw the Teg VSS to the CRX speedo face, the MPH readings will be slightly off regardless of the fact that you're using the Teg tranny.

On a side note, my '85 SI 140 MPH speedo and my Teg 130 MPH speedo lined up perfectly when I layed the faces on top of each other. The Teg VSS also screwed right on to my '85 SI speedo face and dropped right into the gauge cluster. All the internal parts of the Teg and '85 SI speedos were identical! This also leads me to believe that the Teg speedo is based on the '85 SI speedo, Honda must have just added a VSS to the design of the '85 SI speedo to work in the '88-'89 Integra. Guess which speedo I'll be using.

Edit:
I forgot this was going into a Civic. I've never compared the Civic speedo to the Teg, they might be the same.

Edited by lxndr, 03 November 2005 - 02:37 AM.

[frank5079]

lxndr,
the blue wire goes as you stated above. So far this is what I've got to work on.

Integra

C172
1 W/G
2 Bu
3 Y
4 Bu
5 Bu
6 Gr/Or
7 Lg
8 Bu/R
9 G/Bu
10 Or
11 G/Bl
12 W
13 Bu/W
14 W/R
15 W
16 Y/R
17 W
18 ---
19 G/R
20 Br

C171
1 Br
2 Bl
3 R
4 Bl
5 Lb
6 G
7 Y
8 Y
9 ---
10 R
11 G/R
12 G/Bl
13 Y/Br
14 G/Bl
15 Y/Bl
16 Br/Bl
17 Bl/Y
18 Bl/R


Civic

C184
1
2
3
4 G/Y
5
6 G/Or
7
8 Bu/R
9
10
11
12
13 Bu/W
14 W/R
15
16
17 R/W
18 Y/B
19
20

C183
1 Br
2 Bl
3 R
4 Bl
5 Lb
6
7 Y
8 G/Bl
9 ---
10 R/Bl
11 G/W
12 G/Bl
13
14
15 Y/Bl
16 Br/Bl
17 W/Gr
18 B/R



Any ideas on these two connectors? C171 and C183 are almost similar. BTW, thanks for the wiring diagrams, they really helped to clear up alot of vagaries I was dealing with.

Frank

Edited by frank5079, 03 November 2005 - 07:10 PM.

[lxndr]

I'm not near the car or diagrams at the moment, so I'll have to get back to you later.

[lxndr]

Exactly how are you going about wiring your car? Are you using the Teg engine harness, or are you supplementing the SI harness?

[frank5079]

I'm using the Civic harness but trying to supplement it with the teg harnesses to the ECU and the teg underhood fusebox.....

[lxndr]

Do yourself a HUGE favor and grab an Integra engine harness and as much wiring as you can from the ECU to the main round connector out of an '88 or '89 Teg from your local junk yard. Without doing this you'll be running new wires all over the place. This is how I wired my car and it was relatively straight forward once I found the factory wiring diagram. By doing this I just had to make a few changes in the main round connector and at the C connector at the ECU. I think I had to add or change one or two wires in the ECU A connector, and I just swapped out the B connector entirely.

I swapped the B connector because the Teg engine harness has a third 6p connector next to the main round connector, this is where all the addional wires run through the firewall and into the B connector. Also the B connector is where the VSS and ELD wires originate. In the end I must have changed about 10 pins and spliced about 8 wires by going this route.

If you're going the route of supplementing the SI harnesses, then forget about the connectors and just trace the wires from the ECU to wherever they need to attach to the engine, this way all of your wiring changes will be at the ECU. The wiring and pin locations of SI engine harness and SI main round connector should not need to be changed, these changes will then be made at the ECU, just run supplemental wires around the round connector. You might need the Teg alternator connector too since it has an extra wire.

A while back I tested and '88 Teg ECU in my SI with no wiring changes, it ran for about 10 seconds before it shut off and the ECU started flashing codes. Because of this I suspect that most of the stock SI wiring is correct, it just needs to be supplemented.

I wouldn't worry about the Teg fuse box, it will probably be easier for you to pull the ELD out of it and install it somewhere else. It's pretty obvious which part is the ELD, it's a small black rectangular plastic box with a flat metal bar running through it.

Are you using the Teg solenoids, or eliminating them?

Anyway, I'll take a look at your info compared to my diagrams and car, and I'm sure we'll be able to come up with something that will work.



If anyone else has something to add please do so. I'm not a wiring expert, but I just finished wiring my car so this information is still fresh in my brain.

Edited by lxndr, 03 November 2005 - 08:34 PM.

[strudel]

The difference is internal with the speedometers.

If you look at the MPH increments on the CRX vs the Teg, you'll find that the distance between the numbers are closer together on the Teg speedo face. Also, the Teg speedo goes up to 130 MPH with less needle travel than the SI has going up to 120 MPH. This leads me to believe that the Teg speedo has slightly different gearing in the speedo itself. This means that if you screw the Teg VSS to the CRX speedo face, the MPH readings will be slightly off regardless of the fact that you're using the Teg tranny.

On a side note, my '85 SI 140 MPH speedo and my Teg 130 MPH speedo lined up perfectly when I layed the faces on top of each other. The Teg VSS also screwed right on to my '85 SI speedo face and dropped right into the gauge cluster. All the internal parts of the Teg and '85 SI speedos were identical! This also leads me to believe that the Teg speedo is based on the '85 SI speedo, Honda must have just added a VSS to the design of the '85 SI speedo to work in the '88-'89 Integra. Guess which speedo I'll be using.

Edit:
I forgot this was going into a Civic. I've never compared the Civic speedo to the Teg, they might be the same.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I'll continue the semi hijack here but will be somewhat relevant with the cluster.

Agree with the increments being different. Faces on mine don't match, maybe because they are CDM. CRX starts at about 7 o'clock and stops at about 5 o'clock whereas the Teg starts at 9 o'clock and ends at 5 o'clock. They are both 220 KPH speedo faces. I also agree with the gearing being different as that is obvious in the gears inside. But that may have been from the MPH to KPH only. I now don't have a CRX speedo out of the car to compare to the Teg one I have .

The pulses that the VSS gets should be 4 for every revolution of the cable and the drum it spins. So the question that it bodes is whether the ECU cares about the speed of the pulses and what it does with them. In that vein I haven't got the foggiest idea. If it just needs 4 pulses period then it doesn't matter what the difference in ratio from one speed to the next is.

Point in fact is that in Shadowboy's writeup he used a Teg VSS and compared it to the HF and thought they were virtually identical. He also stated that the speedos were the same and that the odometers were different in size physically and the numbers are larger in the Teg. I can't remember if he had comments about the actual speed being accurate. My VSS is a different shape than the one from his HF.

Here is an article about the Teg to Civic VSS swapfor information.

Now, I have have an 87 CRX with complete cluster from an 85 or 86 DX, I can't remember which it came out of. The Teg speedo has HR-081-67 on the front. Also the speedo that came out of the car was a 120MPH/200KPH and a 220KPH/140MPH replaced it. The one I took out was reading ten over in MPH as lxndr can attest to as we compared while I was there. The KPH one works accurately now. Don't know if it was just a faulty one before because if you monkey with the spring at all I'm sure it goes out of proper tune easily.

lxndr, if you can find some documentation or confirmation on any of this stuff it will make everyone's view more accurate. I'm just surmising and using all the information that I have gathered in the past as reference but as we all know some internet stuff isn in the least bit accurate. JS

[frank5079]

lxndr, I have the donor teg's harness and that's what I'm using to supplement the Si harness; if I decide to forego the underhood teg fuse box and just pull the ELD, won't I still have to deal with the two(C171 and C172) ECU harnesses? The reason for my going this route is to try and duplicate the teg engine to ECU wiring as much as possible and not end up with a hodge podge of wires sticking out like sore thumbs. I'm also going to try and install the factory cruise set up.

Edited by frank5079, 04 November 2005 - 07:25 AM.

[frank5079]

Okay, so far this is what has got me stumped; on the Civic 18 pin connector to the ECU I have:
Civic
C183
1 Br
2 Bl
3 R
4 Bl
5 Lb
6
7 Y
8 G/Bl-----------?
10 R/Bl----------?
11 G/W
12 G/Bl
13
14
15 Y/Bl
16 Br/Bl
17 w/G
18 R/Bl
Here is the corresponding Integra connector:
Integra
C171
1 Br
2 Bl
3 R
4 Bl
5 Lb
6 Gr---------?
7 Y
8
10 R---------?
11 G/R------?
12 G/Bl
13 Y/Bl
14 G/Bl
15 Y/Bl
16 Br/Bl
17 Bl/Y-------?
18 R/Bl


The ones with the question marks are the ones that I am lost as to where to connect to. The Civic has two green wires with a black tracer which look identical; the 8th pin has no Integra equivalent, but 12th pin does. Also, in the teg connector, I need help on where pins 5, 10, 11, and 17 will plug to.

[lxndr]

Civic
C183
8 G/Bl-----------?
10 R/Bl----------?

Integra
C171

6 Gr---------?

10 R---------?
11 G/R------?

17 Bl/Y-------?

The ones with the question marks are the ones that I am lost as to where to connect to. The Civic has two green wires with a black tracer which look identical; the 8th pin  has no Integra equivalent, but 12th pin does. Also, in the teg connector, I need help on where pins 5, 10, 11, and 17 will plug to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I coundn't find anything that matched your Civic A8 and A10 pins (C183), but I didn't use these pins at the Teg ECU. I can't seem to find my Civic manual but check yours and it should say where the wires lead, then just splice them in.

The Integra A6 pin (Gr) goes to the purge cut solenoid, A10 (Red) goes to the resonator solenoid (not needed), and A11 (G/R) goes to the EACV (needed).

I'm not using the solenoids at all so I didn't bother with these wires. The purge solenoid simply opens the valve on the charcoal canister to let fuel tank vapors into the throttle body, I just used a hose. The resonator muffles the sound of the air coming through the intake, I didn't feel a need to hook this up. The Idle up solenoid is also not needed (B2 [blue]), the EACV accomplishes the same thing.

Pin # A5 at the ECU goes to the #3 injector (I didn't need to mess with this at all).
Pin # A17 Bl/Y is switched hot. Any black wire with a yellow stripe is a switched hot wire.

Edited by lxndr, 05 November 2005 - 08:32 PM.

[frank5079]

Thanks dude!!! That really helped clear things up for me!!!