105 replies to this topic

[NeverEndingNinja]

Uh, black helicopters are everywhere...but they don't really mean anything

[kaymo]

Kaymo:


George W Bush, a terrorist? Come on man, this is why I question your intelligence.


George W Bush is a terrorist by definition. He uses fear to coerce people, like congress, to do what he wants, like pass the patriot act.
I defined terrorist for you already. To say that Bush doesnt use fear tactics to scare people into accepting what he is doing. He tells us that we must torture these people to keep our families safe. (That was from a Matt Lauer interview) He tells us that anyone who questions the government is a terrorist. This is TERRORISM by DEFINITION.
Why does that make you question my intelligence?



Dennis Kucinich is a Democrat that was trying to run for Pres. in '04 and '08. Against who? GWB. Of coarse he is going to write bad things about GWB. He is his competition!!!

Dennis Kucinich is an American Hero who actually has the courage to stand up against a president who has become a dictator. Something tells me that you have not heard or read anything about his 35 articles of impeachment.

He didnt write "bad things" about George W Bush. He has exposed the two biggest con men in our nation's history. Dick Cheney and George W Bush.
Have you done ANY research about the things Kucinich has brought up about Bush and Cheney OR do you just ASSUME thats what Dennis was doing, throwing mud. If you want to make someone look bad, you do an interview and talk shit. YOU DONT BRING UP ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT. How DARE you trivialize such an important part of our laws that allows us to remove those in office who should not be!

Bush and all of his cronies have been warned not to leave the country. Why? due to threat of assassination? NO
Because they have been told that they may be picked up in another country and brought up on WAR CRIMES. AND RIGHTFULLY SO.




Keith Olbermann is also heavily biased.

Oh yeah? compared to FOX NOISE its NOTHING.


Do you have any nonpartisan evidence? Just curious (I havn't read the articals yet but to be fair I will, I'm at work so my internet time is limited.)


It seems that any evidence coming from anyone that isnt the government is partisan. If you havent read any of the articles, how can you make comment on where i get my news? Things they show on Keith Olbermann may sometimes seem to come from anti-republican opinons, but from what i have seen have not reported things that were outright lies, misquoted bullshit, or simply meaningless drivel. They also report on any democrats who fuck up. they dont just go after republicans. they go after the absurdity of the system. they stick to the facts and dont make shit up.
Now if i change my television to Fox News... otherwise known as the Republican News Network... i get all sorts of bullshit heaved at me. Bill O Reilly is the most rediculous piece of shit ive ever heard. He sat there and said Edwards was lying that there were 200,000 homeless veterans, saying there was only 10,000 and that most homeless were "addicts and mentally ill" turns out the GOVERNMENT report was true, there were 200,000 homeless veterans.
And there is one thing i PERSONALLY know about some of the people that come back from Iraq. They were MADE addicts over there. they BECAME mentally ill because of being forced to KILL WOMEN AND CHILDREN. but our government isnt responsible to those who come back. thats why so many veterans DIED while waiting for their denied claims to be reviewed, which you would know had you read my sources.




"its physics. EVERYTHING MATTERS." <-----100% correct! The impact isn't what brought the towers down. (at least not all of why) The massive amounts of heat compromising the integrity of the structural steel, brought the towers down. And, like I stated before, they were designed to colapse as if by "controled demolition" should the integrity be compromised, as to not damage surrounding buildings (keep damage to a minimum). Unfortunately bldg. #7 did not go unscathed due to the seismic activity from the two towers collapsing. If you are going to quote "physics" you better be ready to use ALL "phyical" activity that happened that day. Like, Heat, Impact, Mass, Inertia, Gravity, not to mention all of the matierials involved like, Concrete, Steel, Wood, Drywall, Plastics, 1000's of gallons of JET FUEL! There are an infinite combonation of posibilities that happened that day and to say that it is "impossible" for the towers to fall that way is absolutely rediculous! And I'm pretty sure, at the age of 21, you don't have your PhD in Physics yet.


As for the last comment, no I dont have my PHD in physics, but i HIGHLY doubt you do EITHER. that would put us ABOUT EVEN.

its not an infinite combonation. our country has had all the necessary forensic tools and science needed to truely pick apart what happed, but only private parties have done any actual research. the different government agencys that were supposed to investigate have either done nothing or sub-contracted the investigation to companies out for profit, not the truth.

I dont think its ridiculous to think that it is impossible for those towers to come down that precisely without help. i simply dont believe it and I am BY FAR not the only one. there are many many MANY people out there researching what really happened. for you to say that we shouldnt investigate that we should just accept what our government has told us happened and that we are dumb for thinking anything differently, i find extremely UNAMERICAN and IGNORANT.




YouTube vids: I'm unable to watch YouTube due to work filters, so I'm unable to comment on their content. I can however say that I've seen a guy unlock a car door with a tennis ball and another guy open a safe using his ear to hear clicks (on youtube)....Those were bullshit. You cant always believe what you see. If your going to apply that to me, you have to apply it to yourself as well.

And I have heard just as much bullshit from Fox News, but that doesn't mean they dont occasionally have some real news. But the thing is, you admit that you have not watched any of these. Yet you STILL sit there and call bullshit? HOW? YOU DIDNT WATCH THEM. the video i posted at the bottom contains TESTIMONY FROM THE SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION on CSPAN. YOU ARE COMPARING THIS TO a video of some dude doing some video editing for fun.

As for that last comment, about if i apply "you cant always believe what you see" to you i must apply it to myself. YOU DIDNT EVEN WATCH THIS VIDEO
You cant even SEE, let alone BELIEVE what you see, IF YOU DONT FUCKING LOOK.

GO STICK YOUR HEAD BACK IN THE SAND YOU OTERICH.


But yet, you STILL have not answered my questions...Why is that???? I'll qoute myself from my last post...

I havent bothered to answer your questions because I dont think you will read them. You already know what your answer is. You wont even bother to read any of the articles i post, do any research into 35 articles of impeachment brought up against the president, just written them off as a democrat trying to put someone down. you dont even watch the videos showing 9-11 footage, news from all kinds of different sources, and even testimony from government officals on CSPAN and compare it to GAG MOVIES because people post them on that site too.

I am arguing with a wall, and at this point only continue to hopefully benefit someone else reading this post.



So what about my questions?

What is 9/11 supossedly hiding?

9-11 was to give our goverment a reason to attack iraq and make money. 100 billion dollars alone has gone to PRIVATE CONTRACTORS.
It made everyone ignore the fact that we broke UN treatys and international law and our constitution to invade a sovereign nation and overthrow its leader.


How does a plane crashing in a field cover up the other plane crashes and 9/11?

i dont know, but its part of the bullshit.


Why do you trust what you read (as long as it's left wing propeganda) and not your government?

i dont trust left wing propaganda. I trust what multiple non-government news sources report, and i trust what makes sense. I dont trust the government because they are corrupt, are doing nothing but lining their pockets and covering their asses, and honestly have NO REASON to care about giving us the truth.


Why are you not answering those questions? Could it be, you don't know. That you're just spewing left-wing, consiracy theory, propegandized "facts". That you really don't have your own facts, only what you have heard from your "heros".

I have not answered these before because i didnt have time to go down your entire post. it could be that i think most people already know how they feel and know what they think, and would read your "trust the government, they would never lie" and laugh and close the window.

If what im saying it so left wing, why is it such popular opinion? what do you mean "you dont really have you own facts" am i supposed to go to the WTC and go collect all the data myself? and who are these "heros" that i am stealing facts from? and it must be stealing beacuse as you say, they are not MY facts.
have i already not proved that I am not just quoting Micheal Moore and Keith Olbermann?
I have cited many news sources and even goverment released information. You bypass these without reading them and still discount them as being bullshit.

it doesnt matter what i say, you are going to continue to tell me that none of my sources are credible and that the government would never lie to us.
If history tells us anything it is to question our government constantly, otherwise we will end up... well where we are today, 650,000 troops into a war against not a country, but an idea. an idea that we most likely caused with our attempts at policing the world.

I can tell by your reponces that you are being defensive. I attacked your opinions, so I believe you have the right to be defensive. But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read what I say carefully because most of what you rebut could have been avoided had you read more carefully.

I have read EVERYTHING you have written and CAREFULLY. your arguments are circular and you contort and spin what i say at every turn.

i wasnt being defensive. i was going offensive. I am tired of SHEEP like you telling people not to question the government and say that we arent in this war for money, but to DEFEND OUR FREEDOMS. SHOW ME HOW the war IN IRAQ makes me ANY SAFER.

You said before that offshore drilling "doesnt hurt the environment that much" and why should i care because "it doesnt affect you anyway"
Then why did you go to Iraq? How did Saddam ever effect you?
This is the most pig headed hypocritical bullshit ive ever heard. who cares about all the wildlife we maim and kill with oil spills, and the geological effect we could have, i want that 10 cents off my gallons in 10 years. Lets go shoot some Habib's and barrel up some crude to take home then. It wont effect you or your family, so why should you care?

like i said before. go stick your head back in the sand. you might not want to see what happens. you dont want to know that you were sent overseas to make someone else rich. you dont want to hear that you killed innocent people so that someone in an office somewhere can make hundreds of thousands of dollars every second. you dont want to know how your government fucked you, and will fuck you, over and over again. you dont want to know and I DONT BLAME YOU.

[kaymo]

oh, and by the way, about Olbermann calling Senator McCain and
"and rival news commentator Bill O'Reilly" worst persons in the world.

1.they are, usually when he brings them up it is about misinformation, misdirection, and outright lies.

2. To call a BillO a news commentator, is like calling Paris Hilton a role model. You can, but its about the dumbest idea you will ever have.

[crxls]

wow, you guys have WAY too much time on your hands. nobody with a life gives a fuck.

[kaymo]

okay, so if you are one of those people with life who doesnt give a fuck, then what are you doing posting here?


this is the problem with america these days. either join the good fight against the evil that has come to power, or shut up and get out of the way. dont sit there and bitch unless you have done at least one thing to try and make things better. get out. vote. be an activist. start a website. make a sign and picket your congressman.

but if you dont have anything fun, juicy, interesting, informative, or important to add, then just shut the fuck up.

have an opinion and pretend that it matters.

why are you even going to bother with such a pointless statement. if you are going to comment, how about something that doesnt make you look like a douche who just posts for the fuck of it. why not express your opinion about the MATTER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

what you just posted is what you are supposed to say in your head after you read the topic. so do you have no inner monologue? that can really get you into trouble you know... espically with females in the workplace.

[only-tuesdays]

Anyone have any of the coverage from 9/11? That may help a little bit.

And for the record, I was 13 when 9/11 happened. I don't think it was a coverup.

[kaymo]

just go to the links in my post, and from there you will find all sorts of different coverage of 9-11.

check out all the "coincidence" videos. they are really eye opening

[rwdcrx]

Anyone have any of the coverage from 9/11? That may help a little bit.

And for the record, I was 13 when 9/11 happened. I don't think it was a coverup.

Did you vote in the poll? I have a hard time believing that the majority of the public thinks 9/11 is a cover-up.


Kaymo:
To say I'm "spinning" what you say is not true. I have directly quoted what you have written. Then I reread your entire qoute. Then I disect each and every part of your quote with my own responces. You on the other hand have taken what I've said, then misquoted it, then responded. Since you seem to believe wikipedia, I quoted it for you.

Spin (public relations)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In public relations, spin is a usually pejorative term signifying a heavily biased portrayal in one's own favor of an event or situation; it is a euphamism for propaganda. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics. Politicians are often accused of spin by their political opponents.

An example of your "spin"

You said before that offshore drilling "doesnt hurt the environment that much" and why should i care because "it doesnt affect you anyway"
Then why did you go to Iraq? How did Saddam ever effect you?
This is the most pig headed hypocritical bullshit ive ever heard. who cares about all the wildlife we maim and kill with oil spills, and the geological effect we could have, i want that 10 cents off my gallons in 10 years. Lets go shoot some Habib's( nice racist remark BTW!) and barrel up some crude to take home then. It wont effect you or your family, so why should you care?

like i said before. go stick your head back in the sand. you might not want to see what happens. you dont want to know that you were sent overseas to make someone else rich. you dont want to hear that you killed innocent people so that someone in an office somewhere can make hundreds of thousands of dollars every second. you dont want to know how your government fucked you, and will fuck you, over and over again. you dont want to know and I DONT BLAME YOU.

And here's what I really said:

You must be voting for McCain then. So am I to believe that Barack Obama is responsible for high gas prices, since he is not for offshore drilling? No.
Did you take even one second to ask, will offshore drilling actually make a short term change in gas prices, and not just assume that it will? (While gas prices would come down, the main reason for my support of offshore, and ANWR drilling is so that we don't need to rely on forign oil.) and at what ecological cost? "The same cost that the thousands of offshore rigs that we already have, MINIMAL."They say offshore drilling doesnt affect the environment, yet millions of gallons of oil were spilled into the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina hit. "And this affected you how????? Oh that's right, it didn't! "Do you not think that has some effect on the environment? Yes. It's called risk vs. reward. What about the California coast? Do you not think that perhaps drilling into the Earth, into the continental shelf may cause un-natural movement in tectonic plates, possibly causing earthquakes and in turn sending San Fransisco to a watery grave? OK you're showing your ignorance again. The tectonic plates are BILLIONS and BILLIONS of tons. Drilling a hole in it is NOTHING. The fact that you think drilling rock would cause an earthquake is hilarious!! Would you support drilling if it were for fresh water????
Ok lets say for a second it won't destroy our environment and piss off mother earth. Lets look at whether offshore drilling will make some sort of immediate effect on gas prices. Immediate, no. Months after, yes.

Another example:

Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

"Terrorist" redirects here. For other uses, see Terrorist (disambiguation)
Terrorism is "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion."[1] There is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism.[2][3] Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants. Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war.
Terrorism is also a form of unconventional warfare and psychological warfare. The word is politically and emotionally charged,[4] and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used.[5] A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist.

You should have used this definition, it is more descript.
How is Bush "terrorizing" you/us? What coercing from you/us? I don't feel that he is. What ideological goal is he perpetuating? I know you think he did the last two so no need to rereply to that.



Who's "spinning" now!? I invite you to find ANY spot in ANY thread that I have done this to you! I haven't!You, Kaymo, are a hypocrite and a lair!

I was trying to have a inteligent conversation with you, but that is impossible because you are illequipt to do so. You have resorted to name-calling, lying, presuming, "spinning", and "mudslinging". If some how you grow up and wan't to have a discussion, I'll continue, if not stop reading.


The "35 articles of impeachment" (I have read it now) issue is WAY to long to discuss, but I'll try to "blanket" it quickly.
1. Anything that is written for fact has "cliffnotes" citing the sources of which said facts came from. (like Wikipedia)ALL 65 pages of his "report" have not one single reference as to were any of this came from. For all we know he could have made up any of those "facts". (I'm not saying he did just that there was the possibility, so pipe down)
2. War was declared against "terror" which was to include any nation that supports terrorists. Congress accepted this declaration of war so this enacted the War Powers Act of 1973. Most of the articles could be covered by this (not illeagal).
3. President Clinton was impeached for ONE issue, getting a BJ in the Oval Office and lying about it. GWB, supposedly has these 35 different issues. WHY has he not been impeached????!!
4. Congress at any time could have said NO to any of GWB's "acts of war" (a paraphrase to encompass all of what we are talking about) and put a stop to all of this. Why didn't they??

oh, and by the way, about Olbermann calling Senator McCain and
"and rival news commentator Bill O'Reilly" worst persons in the world.

1.they are, usually when he brings them up it is about misinformation, misdirection, and outright lies.

2. To call a BillO a news commentator, is like calling Paris Hilton a role model. You can, but its about the dumbest idea you will ever have.

Thank you for being so presumptive as to think that since I share a "right-wing" veiw on 9/11 that I like and watch Fox News/Bill O'Riley. I watch my local NBC news and NBC national news. Fox is only good for NFL. Occasionally I watch CNN and CNBC/MSNBC. I also don't like Rush Limbaugh in case you were about to assume that as well.

ME---->YouTube vids: I'm unable to watch YouTube due to work filters, so I'm unable to comment on their content. I can however say that I've seen a guy unlock a car door with a tennis ball and another guy open a safe using his ear to hear clicks (on youtube)....Those were bullshit. You cant always believe what you see. If your going to apply that to me, you have to apply it to yourself as well.

YOU---->And I have heard just as much bullshit from Fox News, but that doesn't mean they dont occasionally have some real news. But the thing is, you admit that you have not watched any of these. Yet you STILL sit there and call bullshit? HOW? YOU DIDNT WATCH THEM. the video i posted at the bottom contains TESTIMONY FROM THE SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION on CSPAN. YOU ARE COMPARING THIS TO a video of some dude doing some video editing for fun.

As for that last comment, about if i apply "you cant always believe what you see" to you i must apply it to myself. YOU DIDNT EVEN WATCH THIS VIDEO
You cant even SEE, let alone BELIEVE what you see, IF YOU DONT FUCKING LOOK.

GO STICK YOUR HEAD BACK IN THE SAND YOU OTERICH.

DUDE, seriously, learn to read. I said the stuff on youtube I saw was Bullshit. All I said was, take what you see with a grain of salt. ( I didn't really say that, that is what I mean't. I, apparently, have to explain this to you.) BTW the above statement is more "spin" perpetuated by, you!

9-11 was to give our goverment a reason to attack iraq and make money. 100 billion dollars alone has gone to PRIVATE CONTRACTORS.
It made everyone ignore the fact that we broke UN treatys and international law and our constitution to invade a sovereign nation and overthrow its leader.

Ummm OK. 100's of billions of dollars went to "PRIVATE CONTRACTORS" to rebuild New Orleans after Katrina, right? Did Bush make the hurricane happen so that the "PRIVATE CONTRACTORS" could profit? (this is a joke to prove my point, I'm explaining it to you because you don't possess the mental aptitude to understand it.) Someone has to rebuild the cities, and they aren't going to do it for free.

[CarolinaCRX]

Anyone have any of the coverage from 9/11? That may help a little bit.

And for the record, I was 13 when 9/11 happened. I don't think it was a coverup.

I have some video of 9/11. For some reason I taped the constant news coverage of the event from a local channel on 9/11 and for a couple of days afterwards.

[crxls]

okay, so if you are one of those people with life who doesnt give a fuck, then what are you doing posting here?

im posting here because as a moderator it is my duty to make sure there are no problems on this site and upon skimming over this thread i thought to myself "wow, those guys have way too much time on their hands" so i posted it.

this thread is totally worthless in my opinion because it is a political debate and we all know that political debates always end in an internet argument because one person is not as intelligent as the next so he turns to the childish name calling and it goes on from there. i have never seen a thread like this that didnt end in argument. in the end, your postings will not make a difference to the american public.

as for expressing my opinion on the matter you are talking about... i think my opinion was very clear, wasnt it?

as for the "shut the fuck up" comment... you need to watch yourself. fair warning buddy

now for the name calling. this is where political debates go sour and turn into arguments so im not even going to take it personal but more like your politically frustrated because someone else on here showed way more intelligence than you and you hadnt had anything else to say. with that said, im telling you now that the name calling is going to stop right here. dont push this issue.

i think RWDCRX pointed out your name calling the best.

now, im gonna sit back and watch you show your true colors, kaymo. i got $ that says you will be the reason this thread gets locked just like every political debate thread does. go ahead, prove me wrong... please do.

[Computer]

I guess nobody bothered reading my link. I'll post it again.
http://www.loosechangeguide.com


Better put your tin foil hat back on kaymo, you're gunna need it for that one.

Edited by Computer, 14 August 2008 - 09:41 PM.

[crxls]

I guess nobody bothered reading my link. I'll post it again.
http://www.loosechangeguide.com


Better put your tin foil hat back on kaymo, you're gunna need it for that one.

i like that guys responses. he can use "the buildings were hit by airplanes at over 500 MPH" to prove every part of the theory wrong. simplicity!

[Computer]

i like that guys responses. he can use "the buildings were hit by airplanes at over 500 MPH" to prove every part of the theory wrong. simplicity!

What sucks is that kaymo is never going to read it since its an opposing view to his own.


I like the part where people say they heard explosions after the initial hits. Well why WOULDNT they hear explosions? Does this event happen so commonly that there should be a set rules of what should and shouldnt happen when two airliners hit the twin towers at full speed???

Edited by Computer, 14 August 2008 - 10:13 PM.

[rwdcrx]

I guess nobody bothered reading my link. I'll post it again.
http://www.loosechangeguide.com


Better put your tin foil hat back on kaymo, you're gunna need it for that one.

I'd love to see kaymo dispute this ^^^

Good find!

[kaymo]

crxls-

it was late and i totally missed where it said "mod" LOL.
I got angry because everyone ignores all the coincidences and just debunks as much as they can, calling for proof from the other side while providing very little actual "proof" to their debunking. We both can argue with facts we dont know to be true till we are blue in the face, but the fact remains that I DONT BELIEVE IN COINCIDENCES.

I am also really pissed off that they are tryin to start WWIII with this whole georgia and russia thing. Georgia attacked russia and targeted civilian facilities. for the past 15 years the US has funded Georgia's military and arms... i believe it was 144 million in 2000 alone. The cold war never ended and now one of our proxy countries is picking a fight with a huge superpower with stockpliles of weapons... and this is the stuff that is supposed to make me feel safe? this is how our government is protecting us?

i'm just pissed that it seems to be only me and a handful of people who notice how fucked up things are while the rest of everyone gets pissed that we stand up and say something. well for once im pissed that people have a problem with it, espically some jarhead who fights for my very freedom to speak out against my government.... i just think he should be thankful THAT SOMEONE ACTUALLY MAKES USE OF IT instead of ACTING LIKE A LEMMING.


and as far as the 9/11 debunking goes, im done arguing. I DONT BELIEVE IN COINCIDENCES. there are TOO MANY for something to not be FUCKED UP
Cheney was in control of Norad the morning of 9/11 and had taken away the power to shoot down planes from the generals that worked there. That along with the testimony of the Secretary of Transportation on CSPAN, tells me theres something seriously fucked about the whole thing, and if you watch that video and dont think anything is wrong... well... go walk off a cliff you lemming.