123 replies to this topic

[Maine_Honda_Racer]

The US elective system and the GB elective system are NOT the same, I don't have time to go do the research now, its bedtime, however, I will do the research to back up my claim in the am, I appreciate a healthy debate!

[psychoboy]

The US elective system and the GB elective system are NOT the same, I don't have time to go do the research now, its bedtime, however, I will do the research to back up my claim in the am, I appreciate a healthy debate!

make sure you actually refute the statements made, not the concepts you infer from the statements made.


i've not said they are the same. i've said they are both representative systems. i've said that GB has 16 'major' parties, 10 of them with a representative currently in the legislature. i've said that the US has two 'major' parties, and that those two parties have spent the last two decades pandering to their extremes to the exclusion of the majority of the citizens in the middle.


i've said that it is my belief that our citizenry would be better served by the parties dissolution or a reduction in 'party politics'. instead of focusing on what party a politician might align with 50.1% of the time, the citizenry should judge a politician on their actual statements and actions.

regular statistics are easy enough to fudge; political statistics are, more often than not, outright lies.



just a simple, personal example:

I'm not a huge fan of my current representative in DC. i considered running against him a few years ago. i'm a registered democrat (as many oklahomans older than 30 are). I called the state democratic party and was told, in no uncertain terms, that a democrat cannot win this district. the military bases pull the district right, and the university can't pull it far enough left. I suggested that i might have a change with right leaning voters since i'm for fiscal responsibility, means/drug testing for welfare, and enforcement of our national and the pending state immigration laws. you'd have thought i told the guy i burn kittens for a hobby.

so, i called the state republican party and was asked one simple question: "where do you stand on abortion?". i told them I personally wasn't for it, but i understood the choices some women make. I told them i didn't feel it would be my place as a legislator to tell citizens what they could or couldn't do to themselves in a situation as personal as that. again, you'd have thought i told the girl i burn kittens for a hobby.


each party has its base, and i understand that. each party has its core issues, and i understand that, as well. the problem i see is that both parties are unwilling to bend towards each other, and they actively shun anyone who does subscribe to their four or so basic tenets. they are also, apparently, unwilling to accept the fact that a grand portion of the people they profess to represent don't hold or shun the same opinions they do.

Edited by psychoboy, 10 September 2010 - 09:42 AM.

[Maine_Honda_Racer]

Never mind, since you insist on talking down to me like I'm a child, when in fact I'm an intelligent and educated adult, that's the time when aparently being right is more important than having a discussion. I wasn't going for right or wrong, just enjoying the debate. I'll leave you to being right. Enjoy. This is why politics threads never work on the internet.

[psychoboy]

Never mind, since you insist on talking down to me like I'm a child, when in fact I'm an intelligent and educated adult, that's the time when aparently being right is more important than having a discussion. I wasn't going for right or wrong, just enjoying the debate. I'll leave you to being right. Enjoy. This is why politics threads never work on the internet.

i'm not talking down to anyone, i'm merely wanting to make sure my position is well stated.

in far too many cases, people create their own version of someone's statements, then refute those misconceptions.



you asked if we would create "a representative system, with a single party in power like Great Britain" to replace the current system.

i noted that we already have a representative system (so it can't really replace itself)....and that GB doesn't appear to have a single party in power (which is in direct opposition to your statement)

you responded by suggesting that i said the elective systems are the same. since i hadn't said anything about the elective systems in either country, i could only assume that you were creating a false reality to refute. i wanted to make sure you weren't going to waste your time on it.


i'm sorry if i misinterpreted your fairly plain statements.

if you'd like to have another go at it, i'm all ears.



i'm all about debate as well, but we've got to be willing to admit when our points are based in fallacies, either in fact or in logic.

politics threads don't work on the internet because people are rarely willing to admit when their side of the debate is found lacking.

Edited by psychoboy, 14 September 2010 - 01:27 PM.