170 replies to this topic

[Buford]

FYI:
I’m beginning the pursuit of getting some bullet proof hubs made for the 1g/3g. I’m also looking at getting a fully adjustable LSD done.

I have been working with ICP Citation on this project.
http://icpcitation.com/
As you will see they produce very high quality racing components and have many top racing teams as clients. They also produce the championship winning Citation formula cars.

They are proposing making the 1g/3g Hubs out of heat treated 4340 steel. These hubs will be bullet proof so you won't have to change them every season or every 8 races. They would also like to get a broach made to keep the costs down. Broaches are expensive to have made and has to be amortized against the first buy. Broaches can cost $1700 and up. We'll explore trying to get one cheaper if we can.

In order to get these made we will have to do a Group Buy with the usual down payment up front and final payment before shipping. This project will take several months to get drawings done, G Code created and have a broach made.

We need to build 10 sets (20 hubs) in order to keep the cost down Under $400 per hub. If we can't get a full group buy, ICP can EDM the splines in but that will cost an additional $150 to $200 per hub. The lead time will be shorter with EDM.

Yes good parts and good material costs, but is cheap considering that the loss of a wheel at speed could mean the loss of the whole car and worse.

I would like to start a list of interested parties, so please PM me and I'll add your name to the list.
Just need to get a head count now so we can arrive at the best pricing possible.

Also please let other racers know about this project. I'll post on the GT and IT sites as well.

Group Buy is now complete. Richard built a few extra in case there might be others out there that need Hubs. As of 2/16/12 Richard still has a few left, Better get them now!
Thanks to all who participated.

[Greg Gauper]

Buford,
Please keep me in the loop on this. Due to my work schedule I have not been able to do any more research.
I do have some used hubs and a junk stub axle if you need one to take measurements.
I am interested in a minimum of two hubs but might be interested in four if they are not more than $400 each.

[sawchuk]

I would buy the hubs. I have a street CRX with a turbo EW engine that makes 225whp & 230 ft. of torque. I use a OPM limeted slip Differential, so Adjustablity may not help? Let me know if it would! Thanks

[Buford]

This has been updated

[kakabox]

FYI:
I’m beginning the pursuit of getting some bullet proof hubs made for the 1g/3g.

I have been working with ICP Citation on this project.

They would also like to get a broach made to keep the costs down. Broaches are expensive to have made and has to be amortized against the first buy.

We need to build 10 sets (20 hubs) in order to keep the cost down Under $400 per hub.

Buford,
Couldn't you increase the number of interested parties by also contracting 1g Integra hubs to be made?

Some of us "racers" that are not restricted by sanctioning body rules use 1g Integra hubs which, IIRC, have a larger ID for the larger 'teg stub axle. The spline count would be more, and the machining geometry would obviously be different, however, I think the same 'broach' could be used.

Offering 1g 'teg hubs could possibly double your number of interested parties. Maybe.

Just a thought.

J.

[firstgencrx]

Buford,
Couldn't you increase the number of interested parties by also contracting 1g Integra hubs to be made?

Some of us "racers" that are not restricted by sanctioning body rules use 1g Integra hubs which, IIRC, have a larger ID for the larger 'teg stub axle. The spline count would be more, and the machining geometry would obviously be different, however, I think the same 'broach' could be used.

Offering 1g 'teg hubs could possibly double your number of interested parties. Maybe.

Just a thought.

J.

The spline count is more AND bigger in diameter. The outside physical dimensions between the two hubs are the same. Just the inside splines are different. You would need a different broach for each style. BUT, that being said, your idea is still valid. The more blank hubs (without broaching) made, the cheaper they will get. The material and heat treat is more than half the cost for these things. The broaches are not that expensive. I bet one could be made for $800, maybe even less.

David

EIDT: Sorry J, I guess I didn't read your post very well. What I said still applies, just a kind of repeat of what you said. The broaches will be different though.

[firstgencrx]

Something to add to this thread and to think about:

Because the Integra hubs use the same bearing, but have a larger diameter splined axle stub, the wall of that splined socket is thinner compared to the CIVIC hub. That would make the hub even weaker on that inside bearing radius. I would guess these 4340 hubs would be even more desirable for the Integra hub users.

Just a thought.

[gtpilot]

Because the Integra hubs use the same bearing, but have a larger diameter splined axle stub, the wall of that splined socket is thinner compared to the CIVIC hub. That would make the hub even weaker on that inside bearing radius.

That's the very reason I will not use Integra hubs with a D16A1 install into my CRX - I will have custom axles built to use the Civc hub.

Kirk

[firstgencrx]

That's the very reason I will not use Integra hubs with a D16A1 install into my CRX - I will have custom axles built to use the Civc hub.

Kirk

Thanks for confirming that Kirk. I'm feeling a need to make some stronger hubs for my project too. I'm running the thinner wall Integra hubs, and Greg has me scared! I've even considered making a chromoly sheet knuckle that would use the larger Prelude bearing. Then I could solve all kinds of other problems like bump steer, and lower control arm angles all at the same time........

I'd jump in with Skips group buy, but I'm still trying to dig myself out of a money hole.

[kakabox]

Because the Integra hubs use the same bearing, but have a larger diameter splined axle stub, the wall of that splined socket is thinner compared to the CIVIC hub. That would make the hub even weaker on that inside bearing radius.

I would guess these 4340 hubs would be even more desirable for the Integra hub users.

Yup...hence, my post asking to be included.

[DEIVIONCRX]

I could be interested in some 1g Integra Hubs. Hubs are a wear item for racing Honda's. And the Integra's being weaker, id definitely be interested in some stronger ones, with my B-swap.

[JMSBND]

I have the JDM DOHC ZC powered 1g crx - and asked Buford the same thing via PM. Interested - but I think I run the Teg hubs standard? Anybody confirm or how can I tell? Spline count etc?

I love this board - such commitment to performance products for an old car makes building these things fun.

James.

[EPcivic]

That's the very reason I will not use Integra hubs with a D16A1 install into my CRX - I will have custom axles built to use the Civc hub.

Kirk

FYI, the only secret to the 'custom' axle required to make this work is to get two passenger side CRX/Civic axles and swap the inner housings to the Integra ones. The inner tri-pod joints are exactly the same except for the part that engages the transmission/jackshaft. Open boot, pull joint apart, slide into Integra inners, repack and reboot. Takes about 5min each.

-Chris

[gtpilot]

FYI, the only secret to the 'custom' axle required to make this work is to get two passenger side CRX/Civic axles and swap the inner housings to the Integra ones. The inner tri-pod joints are exactly the same except for the part that engages the transmission/jackshaft. Open boot, pull joint apart, slide into Integra inners, repack and reboot. Takes about 5min each.

-Chris

"
That's correct...and I have the shafts and the rebuilder to make it work - "I pity the fool" after me though! - Kirk

[firstgencrx]

Why are you guys not looking at other cars that use the 23 and 26 spline outer CV joints? It's not 100% that a 26 spline for a Toyota, or Ford, or Chrysler, or ? is the same size as a Honda, but you never know.

My argument is this, if there are other motorsport companies out there making hubs for cars with a 26 or 23 spline outer CV stub, they might just have the broach that you need.

I have identified 121 unique and different part numbers with a 26 spline count outer CV stub. Only 13 unique part numbers for the 23 spline count (the 23 is a very wimpy stub, probably why it's not very popular). Some of the part numbers are for the same car, with or without ABS. So that will narrow down the search.

I'll try and compile some kind of list of what these cars are, models and years. Maybe there is a company out there making hubs for a completely different car, that has a broach that will work with our outer CV joints. Then all you need to do is convince them to make hubs for our cars.

You guys are lazy!