212 replies to this topic

[GENONE]

Woohoo!!! can't wait to see it run and take it for a spin

[anjin]

been absent from this thread for a while

Since getting the beast licensed, I've been getting tyres, rims and suspension sorted.

For daily use I transferred a set of pretty new types onto a set of phone dial rims to maintain the period, sleeper look.

For track use I scored some used TOYO semislick tyres that happen to be road legal as well, and a set of alloy five spoke rims that have much better brake cooling capacity than the phone dials. While I'm learning second hand will suit me fine.

The suspension has been swapped out and replaced with 24mm torsion bars, 350 lb linear monkeyztec springs, and tokico Illumina 5 way adjustable shocks. They were on my other crx, which now has the better riding teg 21 mm torsion bars, koni low springs, and koni red and yellow shocks. I'm still in two minds on the koni versus illumina's for track use. The torsion bars went in low at a similar setting to the other car, but they were too low and I indexed them up again. The increase in engine weight was noticeable there.

The adjustable camber plates are in as well - they look great. It was an easy install as well, after I bought some imperial allen keys. The alignment shop will have some fun there.

I had to replace the lhs lower control arm, which was an exercise in patience with second hand parts not being solid enough, and the new replacements having to be adjusted by grinding to clear the rotors - I posted a warning on this in the technical section. I've had that lower control arm off 5 times now.

Also replaced the tie rod ends - a previous owner had welded the lhs nut to the stud, the rubber boots was history, and I needed to get the toe adjusted anyhow.

This week I will have the alignment done, and then the red beast should be ready for some serious workouts.


Also discovered I had deleted a section of wiring that supplied power to the alternator and main relay. A 'temporary' arrangement is in place which I really must do properly.


Future bits -
Exhaust upgrade
Start a roll bar install and build it up to a half cage.
Upgrade the dash instrument console with an aftermarket surround whicch allows two extra guages to be fitted.
Lower the seat
Check out the fuel delivery
Probably a cam upgrade, along with an ecu upgrade to OBD2a and type R. But that can wait for a bit.

[JDT]

Wow! You're nuts. Please give us a vid.

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

.........................join ozhonda

but seriousely the crx is looking hot and should pwn at the track...


VIDS OR BAN!

[anjin]

VIDS OR BAN!

Should have it at a track in the next four weeks. Provided the support crew are there (genone) then vids will be made. Not that I will be doing great things - but if I can get the instructer to go hard, or one of the proper local honda race drivers gives it a burl, then the vid shoudl be good.

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Should have it at a track in the next four weeks. Provided the support crew are there (genone) then vids will be made. Not that I will be doing great things - but if I can get the instructer to go hard, or one of the proper local honda race drivers gives it a burl, then the vid shoudl be good.

video is video

[anjin]

Ok, I said I would do a retrospective on the swap, highlighting some of the somewhat different things that occurred or I did; and why. It'll go over a number of posts.

Discussion is welcomed. Just be polite.

CHOICE OF ENGINE
Firstly, why the B18C. Frankly, I couldn't see why I would bother with a b16, and apologies to those of you who have chosen that route. There are two basic reasons.

One. The only essential mechanical difference in swapping a B16 and a B18 is that the B18 has a slightly higher block. That's it. Almost everything else - engine mounts, gear linkage, ecu and wiring, exhaust, radiator etc is exactly the same whichever motor you choose. The only significant difference is that you should change the intake manifold for the b18. But even this is not necessary if you are prepared to shift the firewall.

Two Power and torque. The best aussie D series makes 135 hp at the flywheel. The median B16A figure is 160 hp and 111 ft lb. You can get that D upto the B16A figures for less than it costs to do a proper B16A swap. In fact, in terms of area under the curve, a built D should outperform the B16A
The B18C in jdm guise - which I am fortunate to be able to access in Australia - gets 178 hp and 130 ft lb. You can still get the D up to that , but the cost in to do so is more as well. And the B18C is doing it in oem state, right out of the box. No abnormal stress. And if you want to, the B18C can be type r'ed to close to 200 hp and 130 ft lb. Given what goes into the type r to get that figure, the B18C is very good in standard trim.

Mind you, if a B16B was more readily available at 185 hp and 118 ft lb, that would be a good option instead of the B18C. But I've only ever seen one of them in Perth. That's going into a local gen 1 as well.

Note that I am not looking at the turbo route for a D series build - just n/a. Boosted is a different game.

There is a downside to the B18C choice - initial cost of the engine compared to the b16A. But what would it cost to get the B16A another 20 hp and 20 ft lb?

[anjin]

Retrospective continued.

HASPORT stuff.

MOUNTS - great product with excellent quality construction and finish. Nice and light as well, being aluminium compared to steel. And look great as a bonus. But if I do another swap I might not go that route.

Why? Honda Tuning magazine did a very nice article on how Hasport design their mounts. It's a precision fitting and building exercise, and well worth the read. Url is http://www.hondatuni...made/index.html. But one of the things they have done is allowed the firewall to dictate where the longitudional placement of the engine occurs. The clearance is very tight - about half an inch.

If I look at the drive shafts they angle forward, and there is about an inch and a half of space that could be used to move the engine back if you crease the firewall. And moving the engine back positively affects balance.

I would seriously consider fabricating my own mounts to get that aft movement of the engine for better balance, and incidentally straighten out the drive shafts. Here is a NZ example of a severe firewall modifiaction to put a H22A into an EF civic by one of our members - thanks FROST




example of custom mounts



Of course, as I already have a b mounted in the bay and can measure what and where I would need these mounts, I have a head start on doing this compared to someone starting out fresh. I would definitely owe HASPORT a large amount of thanks for the groundwork they have done.

If you don't have the skills and/or the confidence to do it yourself, go HASPORT. Expensive yes, but they are proven to work and will not give you any problems. I am glad I did on this project.

And unless you already have the rear mount, get that as part of the package or order it from Honda. Getting a second hand one in good shape might be more difficult than you thought.

DRIVE SHAFTS
I didn't go for the HASPORTS. That B16B swap I mentioned had them in, but for some reason - possibly miscommunication - they did not fit and were too long. Being literally the other side of the world, I decided not to get them and risk problems. I had a custom set made locally. You would probably have already seen that set of posts. For information the HASPORTS would have been about 60- 70% of the cost of the custom set, even after postage.

It is possible that you could an existing DA series set of axles - they will probably fit. I've seen posts were this is discussed. I've also seen suggestions that you can remove rubber bits in the hub ends to get better length matching. But my cv shop strongly advised against even trying, as the clearances on the ends of axles into the gear box are pretty important, and you run the risk of pushing the axle into the diff too far and bye bye gearbox. If you are going to do this, spend a lot of time checking out the clearances at various suspension heights and turning angles. What fits easily on the axle stands will be a lot tighter when lowered.

The correct intermediate shaft is a pain to find. I think mine was DA1 integra manual one, but as it came out of a pile I can't swear to that. If I'm wrong please post a correction. Part of my problem was that the block was an auto, and I was putting in cable manual Y1 b16a box, so it was mismatching components to start with.

[anjin]

GEARBOX is next bit.

I knew nothing about gearboxes before this project - a literal black box. I've had several open now - the original CG box that comes with the zc browntop, the L3 from the D16 blacktops and a Y1 cable from a B16. They are not so scary now.

The main choice as I see it is whether to stay cable or go hydraulic. The positive for the cable is that you don't have to muck around getting some form of hydraulics into the car. The positive on the hydraulic is that its likely a newer and better condition box. I went for simplicity and a cable box.

The frontcut had an auto box. The box I got came off a b16A jdm import with supposedly low mileage. I didn't have it serviced or reconditioned, but in pulling it open for an lsd I had a really good look and it seems ok.

It was a simple enough fit, with the following points to note:
-you do need to get the gearbox/engine stiffeners that go on the bottom of the assembly. I had auto box stiffeners and they needed modifications to fit.
-the existing cable may work. Mine has to be kind of stretched past the upgraded brake booster and air intake tube. Depending how you do the bits that go into the area above the gearbox, you might have to try different cables. Or this could just be a rhd thing.
- I had some issues with the different lengths of the throw out arm. The EW clutch has a shorter throw arm, and I didn't initially have enough adjustment when I put the clutch cable on the B16 box throw out arm. I made up a bracket to effectively shorten the thros arm, but I am no longer sure it was a real problem. It is however something to be aware of. Making the bracket was a simple enough exercise.

The combination of the Y1 box and the B18C is great for the track. The engine just pulls straight through nice and quickly, corners can be done in third in the band ( a friend's SiR needs to drop to second on these corners), and it seems well suited to this use. But highway travelling is a bit rough - 100 kph (60 MPH) is 3300 revs which is a bit high. So depending on the use of the car its well worth looking at the gear ratios/final drive/tyre sizes so get the gearbox configuration that best suits your combination. You might want to change the fifth gear to give yourself a nice highway cruise but keep the closer ratio track type ratios in 2-4. Basically spend a bit more time here than I did - I was lucky it worked out for me so well.

An LSD is highly recommended. I've just about doubled the power output with thsi swap, and the lsd really helps keeping the car going straight, and pulling through corners. I looked at the Quaife and Kaz etc, but ended up with an OBX helical gear unit as about 40% of the cost of the quaife. So far I'm happy. If it breaks I can replace it and still be ahead; or go for the cream the second time around. The one issue I had was that the gear assembly on one side was almost a slide rather than a press fit to the lsd. The gearbox shop looked at getting the shaft roughened up, but the metal was too hard, so they loctited it. I regard that as a 'watch this space' exercise. But a gearbox pull is a day job so I am not too worried.

A tip here - if you pull the casing and shafts out yourself following the shop manual instructions, the gearbox shop only has to swap the gear assembly off the open diff and onto the lsd. Thats a much lower cost to you, and you get to inspect the box. It might seem like a major job, but its actually pretty straighforward. The B series box is simpler to work on that the D series L3 boxes, and way simpler than the earlier ones. The shop manual instructions are straighforward, and you only need spanners and a circlip pliers.

CLUTCH and FLYWHEEL

I went stock standard. The car is an occasional track animal and not a dedicated arce car, and most mileage is around the city. So I don't see a need for anything better.

[anjin]

And so to BRAKES

Did the 1st gen teg rear axle conversion. No real dramas, the threads on how to do it are pretty much straight on. You do have to remember to get the proportioning valve as well.

The car had teg or second gen crx front hubs, rotors and calipers, and I have stayed with them so far. When I get to manufacture or aquire a caliper relocator so that I can put larger rotors on, I'll go to the legend/dc series integra/EG plus civic caliper set up. At the moment these calipers actually fit on the hub and rotor but the wheel rims foul the caliper. I need to move the caliper out from the hub to clear the wheel rims.

An interesting thing is that in a comparison of the dc integra/early legend calipers with the early teg/2ndgen crx calipers, the pads are pretty much the same profile. The piston in the caliper is 45mm in the early teg/2nd gen crx, and 49mm in the later calipers. So the pick up in a swap is in the piston size and not the pad size.
So I'm not on a big hurry - the real benefit of a swap will be with the larger diameter rotor and the increased leverage this gives.

I did upgrade the master cylinder and booster, but not using the prelude method written up in the big brake thread. I used the dc series integra master cylinder and booster. It was a fairly simple bolt in - I had to bend the brake line that runs under the booster a bit to get it out of the way - about 10mm. The one tricky bit that prevents it being a straight boltin is that one of the brake lines into the master cylinder has a larger diameter fitting (the brake line is the same - just a bigger fitting). You need to get that fitting with the master cylinder, cut the end of the crx line that matches that position, slip on the larger one, and reflare the line so it matches the new end fitting. Not difficult and I used a flare kit from the local car mart.

The master cylinder and booster are about 30% larger in physical size, and protrude into the engine bay further. On a rhd car you have to route the air intake and the clutch cable taking account of the bigger unit, but it does work. I'd be interested how this goes in a lhd car.

So the brake system is almost all integra - only the lines, pedal and handbrake lever are original crx.

The brakes are effective, smooth and progressive, and you don't really notice them, which is the sign of a good upgrade as I see it. The only issue I have had is that yesterday I destroyed the OEM front pads after about 45 track laps in three sessions - the picture tells the story. ( FI, The laps are about 64 -70 secs each)


I replaced them today with a replacement oem set. But I'll start running an oem set for daily driving and a race set for track time.



And there will be an in-car vid of that session coming in a week or so.
I had a ball except for not finding third gear about five times going into corners, and having terrible lines. I was concerntrating on winding up the bravery button so I go into corners faster knowing the car will come out the other side where I want it. I am getting confident that the car will behave, so lines etc will come as I drive smarter and with confidence.

Topics to come - wiring, dash replacement.

[zakats]

why bother converting to OBD2a ecu? a minor tune to an obd1 ecu would be far easier and affective

[anjin]

why bother converting to OBD2a ecu? a minor tune to an obd1 ecu would be far easier and affective

You have a point. To answer, partly for the challenge of doing it, and partly to be able to use the oem type r ecu rather than tuning the obd1 gsr ecu.

On the oem issue, I did about 45 laps on saturday in about 30 centigrade temperatures, and two sessions would have pushed 20 laps as fast as I can drive it, and mostly above 4500 rpm. A month ago I was running a shorter series of laps at 35 centigrade. The water temperature didn't move off what I get cruising on the highway. Thats a stock integra radiator and fan etc, and I thought that was pretty impressive. So I am quite happy to start from oem, and only upgrade where I have to.
Having said that, I have acquired a VAFC which is probably as good or better an option for tweaking as going obd2a.

So the OBD2a is on the back burner now. There is a possibility of getting a stroked B16B that is essentially an 1800 type R engine but runs a b16a2 ecu. Now that would be a good match-up to the obd2a.

two b18 gen 1's in the driveway???

[JDT]

When you did the 1st gen teg rear axle conversion, did you find any differences with the AUDM teg and the US model or is the swap the same?

What track are you racing at?

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

So there is a possibility to use Eg/Dc brake equipment

Anjin Im loving you car just cant wait till i can get my A into G and get started on mine even though it wont be as elite as yours

[GENONE]

RED - aka 1CRX666 on the track