13 replies to this topic

[Bill Davis]

Hey gang,
I saw this post in the wanted section but thought I'd ask my question here:

Just FYI, 88-00 D16 rods are all the same. Only the pistons are different. 86/87 A1 rods are the same length, but slightly thicker and made of a different material

Are the 86-87 rods stronger, or just different? I'm about to install some 88-89 rods I have (shotpeened), but was told I should use 86-87 ones. We keep throwing rods in our endurance race motors...

Thanks.

[Bill Davis]

Anyone have a picture of '86-87 'Teg rods?

[cbstdscott]

Throwing a lot of rods? How many rpms are you turning?

[jsgprod]

Anyone have a picture of '86-87 'Teg rods?

Yeah, left to right HF, 1.5 EW, D16A1 (early 'Teg):



The 'Teg rods won't fit on the EW crank. The big end bore is too large.

If you're throwing rods in enduros (Lemons?) I'd suggest installing an Accusump. It's cheap insurance and they work quite well in supplying the needed oil to to the bearings when you uncover the pick-up. Which is what I'd bet is happening.

Been there.

Jay

Just looked at your link and see that it is the Lemons stuff. I also noticed you're using the D16 engine so disregard the EW comment.

[Bill Davis]

Throwing a lot of rods? How many rpms are you turning?

We limit ourselves to 6k on average, with occasional 7k shifts. These are 200k JY motors... (See below.) But I would really like to be safe shifting at up to 7500 so I'm shooting for reliability at this rpm.

The 'Teg rods won't fit on the EW crank. The big end bore is too large.

If you're throwing rods in enduros (Lemons?) I'd suggest installing an Accusump. It's cheap insurance and they work quite well in supplying the needed oil to to the bearings when you uncover the pick-up. Which is what I'd bet is happening.

Been there.

Jay

Just looked at your link and see that it is the Lemons stuff. I also noticed you're using the D16 engine so disregard the EW comment.

Awesome, thanks! Yeah, this is Lemons, and we pull our motors from the local JY at >200k miles and have just run them as-is. The first race went great (6th out of ~100) but have thrown rods twice since then. The most recent race we added an accusump but had the same result (except even MORE oil got thrown everywhere when she blew!). We had a "refreshed" engine ready to go in before the race but didn't make the time to install it. Before I install it now I decided to take the time to step back and look at the big picture (I have more time now as nothing else needs fixing). I've bought some shotpeened d16 rods, but then was told to use 86-87 rods instead and this had me scratching my head.

So, in the photo, the rod on the right is from an 86-87 d16a1 as opposed to the 88-89?

[Greg Gauper]

The main weak link on the stock rod is the rod bolts.
They stretch over time under racing conditions, loosen up, and then kablamo....

Use stronger aftermarket ARP rod bolts and you'll be fine.

An aftermarket baffled pan and/or an accusump will help too.

While your in there, beef up you oil pick-up with some extra braces brazed or welded to better secure the strainer to the pipe. The harmonics on these engines are terrible and will cause the pick-up to fatigue and break off at the strainer. Both Jay & I have suffered from this problem.

[jsgprod]

So, in the photo, the rod on the right is from an 86-87 d16a1 as opposed to the 88-89?

Yes, definitely.

[Bill Davis]

The main weak link on the stock rod is the rod bolts.
They stretch over time under racing conditions, loosen up, and then kablamo....

Use stronger aftermarket ARP rod bolts and you'll be fine.

An aftermarket baffled pan and/or an accusump will help too.

While your in there, beef up you oil pick-up with some extra braces brazed or welded to better secure the strainer to the pipe. The harmonics on these engines are terrible and will cause the pick-up to fatigue and break off at the strainer. Both Jay & I have suffered from this problem.

I've got ARP bolts (and stretch gauge) and the rods I have have been re-sized with them. I just can't decide whether or not to go through the trouble of pulling 86-87 rods and having those re-sized... or just running what I have. What do you run Greg, Jay?

Interesting about the oil strainer! I'll check that out! Any pics out there of this mod?

Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate the help shortening my learning curve!

[Bill Davis]

I pulled out a set of rods from an '87 Teg yesterday and can share the differences between the '87 rods and the '88 rods my engine came with.
Here's a photo (the darker one is from the '87 as it hasn't been cleaned):


The rods measure as follows:
'88:
.53" wide by .43" thick

'87:
.72" wide by .56" thick at crank
.65" wide by .49" at piston

Thanks for the tips!

Any pics out there of the oil pick up reinforcement mod?

[Greg Gauper]

Here is the pic that Jay sent me that I use as an example. Note: you can see the break in the photo.
On my broken unit, the whole strainer was cracked off and was rolling around in the oil pan!
Fortunately the end of the pipe was still submerged in the oil pan so I didn't hurt anything.

Basically, it's a simple mod to add a couple of thin strips of metal mounted at an angle and welded to the top of the strainer to give it more support.

[Bill Davis]

Basically, it's a simple mod to add a couple of thin strips of metal mounted at an angle and welded to the top of the strainer to give it more support.

Easy enough. Thanks!
-Bill

[Bill Davis]

Done! Thanks!

[eadohcturbo]

I'd open up the oil passage holes in the main bearings to allow more flow to the rods.

[sawchuk]

I'd open up the oil passage holes in the main bearings to allow more flow to the rods.

I did that to my engine after reading Endyne's B series engine building tips as well as porting the oil pump & block oil passage.