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Carburetor Research!


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#31
DarkHand

QUOTE (eivad1 @ Sep 6 2008, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
whats happening with this project


It's on hold at the moment, work has me driving all over the state right now (in a rental at least), I'm pretty much working two people's jobs... No time for projects for a bit. biggrin.gif Next step though is to decrease the current to the choke spring, to cause it to open more slowly. It's a matter of finding the right resistor.
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#32
Captain Regular

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I was reading this thread and had a thought. You seem to know a LOT about the workings of the stock carb, much more than I do. It seems a big focus here is the choke function (and loss of it after a devac) and how to re-instate it. What about an manual electrically controlled vacuum choke? If the bay is devacced, you should have two black boxes chock full of nifty vacuum control parts, right? What's actually IN there and can any of it be put to use? I'm thinking either an electrical vacuum source (electric vacuum pump, maybe) or even just an electrically controlled VALVE. Basically, you'd have an electrical switch in your dash somewhere, and you hit that and it switches on the choke via one of the components removed from a vacuum control box. Either opens up a branch from the engine vacuum or generates its own. Like I said, I'm not sure what most of this does, but is this viable?

#33
DarkHand

That's definitely something to look into... There's all kinds of good stuff in those boxes... solenoids, switches, vacuum pumps, hose, T-fittings, etc.

The tough part would be coming up with something that can progressively control the choke. An all-on or all-off setup would be (somewhat) simple, but something that could open the choke, say, in 1/3rd increments would be something else.

I've been thinking of tracking down the parts for a manual choke knob from a Canadian CRX. ph34r.gif
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#34
Captain Regular

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QUOTE (DarkHand @ Oct 17 2008, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's definitely something to look into... There's all kinds of good stuff in those boxes... solenoids, switches, vacuum pumps, hose, T-fittings, etc.

The tough part would be coming up with something that can progressively control the choke. An all-on or all-off setup would be (somewhat) simple, but something that could open the choke, say, in 1/3rd increments would be something else.

I've been thinking of tracking down the parts for a manual choke knob from a Canadian CRX. ph34r.gif

When I do my devac I'm definitely gonna have to take a multimeter and some electronics to those components, see what I can dig up. Even just a full on/full off solution would be beneficial to starting, at least over NO choke function at all. What other functionality do you lose with a devac that might be worth...restoring?

#35
DarkHand

QUOTE (Captain Regular @ Oct 17 2008, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What other functionality do you lose with a devac that might be worth...restoring?


If you have AC, you'd want to keep the AC idle boost connected too. The solenoid for that is on the driver's side firewall and activated by the AC switch. It has two vacuum ports on it, and just connects the two ports internally when it's energized. You'd hook one up to manifold vacuum, and the other to the AC idle boost diaphragm on the carb.
DarkHand

#36
andrew87crx

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Is there a diagrahm somewhere as to what all the parts are on the carb? I am having trouble with mine running too rich, it sokes and smells like gas, and won't idle below 1100, unless I connect the little solinoid on the back, then I can get a rough idle ~600, but then it dosen't have any power at higher rpms. Any Ideas? btw I am fully devaced and have the mechanical secondaries. All ports blocked off except for the dizzy.
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#37
andrew87crx

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I forgot, I found this the other day.
Manual Choke
I am planning on getting one if I get the rex running right.
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#38
Captain Regular

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QUOTE (DarkHand @ Oct 18 2008, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you have AC, you'd want to keep the AC idle boost connected too. The solenoid for that is on the driver's side firewall and activated by the AC switch. It has two vacuum ports on it, and just connects the two ports internally when it's energized. You'd hook one up to manifold vacuum, and the other to the AC idle boost diaphragm on the carb.

Since you're no longer using it, do you think the secondary diaphragm could be used in conjunction either with a venturi-vac-AC solenoid or one from a control box in a setup that could be cut and re-bolted back on in a manner that could give the electronic choke? It can't have a very big throw and I'm sure it would be strong enough to close it off against a small spring... I'm in the process of doing a lot of this now. Well, the rebuild, anyway, but I can tell that the previous owner had just jammed the vac system and my secondary was completely siezed shut and just full of crap. I have no idea how long it's been since my secondary ever worked, but I'm gonna get it up and running. But it's getting colder here, and I want to try that electro-vacu-choke mod...

#39
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Ok, I've got my carb all sorts of taken apart now, and I've hit a small snag. In the middle section of the carb, how the hell do you get the venturis out? There are two flathead screws with holes in them (set screws?) near them, I have one of them out, I'm trying to get the other out without breaking it (edit - it's a little stripped, I'm taking WD-40 to it for a few minutes, I hope I didn't just ruin my carb. It's gonna be tough to get that one out, if not impossible.) but the first one doesn't seem to loosen the venturi at all. The instruction say "carefully remove set screws in side of bowl" but there's nothing screw-wise (other than the power valve in the float bowl, and no other screws near the venturis.

Wait, there are two...spots that look like they have a goop of quicksteel or something over them, right where the venturis end on the outside of the carb body. They're on the side the choke controls were on. I think that's it. They're not located anywhere in the diagram on my instructions, that was a bit frustrating. Ok, it's not hard enough to be quicksteel, I think it's just RTV that's stiffened up over time. This stuff on a stock carb, or did somebody put this on after the fact?

Oh, and I want to ask DarkHand about his zip-tie mod: Did they ever really stick after they opened up all the way? When my secondary is WOT, it holds BOTH throttle plates wide open. I'm probably going to take the springs off and completely disassemble the bottom part of the carb, clean and lubricate those rods and everything really well, and hope that prevents them from locking like that, but it almost seems like the pins and curves of the metal down there are MADE to lock them together after they hit a certain point...

EDIT (again): Oh, and what the hell is that little, tiny dime-sized carb barrel? It goes all the way through and has its own throttle plate and little fuel jet but no actual venturi assembly or choke plate. What the hell?

Edited by Captain Regular, 22 October 2008 - 04:08 PM.


#40
DarkHand

QUOTE (Captain Regular @ Oct 22 2008, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok, I've got my carb all sorts of taken apart now, and I've hit a small snag. In the middle section of the carb, how the hell do you get the venturis out? There are two flathead screws with holes in them (set screws?) near them, I have one of them out, I'm trying to get the other out without breaking it (edit - it's a little stripped, I'm taking WD-40 to it for a few minutes, I hope I didn't just ruin my carb. It's gonna be tough to get that one out, if not impossible.) but the first one doesn't seem to loosen the venturi at all. The instruction say "carefully remove set screws in side of bowl" but there's nothing screw-wise (other than the power valve in the float bowl, and no other screws near the venturis.

Wait, there are two...spots that look like they have a goop of quicksteel or something over them, right where the venturis end on the outside of the carb body. They're on the side the choke controls were on. I think that's it. They're not located anywhere in the diagram on my instructions, that was a bit frustrating. Ok, it's not hard enough to be quicksteel, I think it's just RTV that's stiffened up over time. This stuff on a stock carb, or did somebody put this on after the fact?


Here's the best picture I could get of one of the venturi setscrews, painted in orange in this pic:


The other one is just to the left behind the choke opener. You'll need to remove the whole assembly to get to it.


QUOTE (Captain Regular @ Oct 22 2008, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, and I want to ask DarkHand about his zip-tie mod: Did they ever really stick after they opened up all the way? When my secondary is WOT, it holds BOTH throttle plates wide open. I'm probably going to take the springs off and completely disassemble the bottom part of the carb, clean and lubricate those rods and everything really well, and hope that prevents them from locking like that, but it almost seems like the pins and curves of the metal down there are MADE to lock them together after they hit a certain point...


The zip tie mod actually remedies the sticking throttle problem; it's the older devac method of connecting the secondary diaphragm to venturi vacuum that has the potential of sticking the carb at full throttle. If you still have a carb with the secondary diaphragm connected, try applying vacuum to the secondary and touching the throttle; the throttle will pop right to full and stay there as long as vacuum is applied. If that happened while the car was running, it would be bad. smile.gif It also goes to show that the secondary isn't opening with the older devac setup... if it did, throttles would be sticking open left and right!

QUOTE (Captain Regular @ Oct 22 2008, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EDIT (again): Oh, and what the hell is that little, tiny dime-sized carb barrel? It goes all the way through and has its own throttle plate and little fuel jet but no actual venturi assembly or choke plate. What the hell?


That's what feeds the auxiliary chamber of the CVCC system.
DarkHand

#41
Captain Regular

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QUOTE (DarkHand @ Oct 22 2008, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The zip tie mod actually remedies the sticking throttle problem; it's the older devac method of connecting the secondary diaphragm to venturi vacuum that has the potential of sticking the carb at full throttle. If you still have a carb with the secondary diaphragm connected, try applying vacuum to the secondary and touching the throttle; the throttle will pop right to full and stay there as long as vacuum is applied. If that happened while the car was running, it would be bad. smile.gif It also goes to show that the secondary isn't opening with the older devac setup... if it did, throttles would be sticking open left and right!

Well, I found my setscrews. It was like behind a silicone or RTV compound that had hardened a LOT. And it matched the rest of the carb for color, very hard to spot, but I got them out.

My sticky throttle problem was with the carb OFF, hell even just the bottom section of the carb, no diaphragms or anything, when I opened both throttle plates with my hand, the mechanism would just sort of lock up, there wasn't enough return on the secondary springs to pull it back. I mean BOTH throttle plates would stick open, the secondary would HOLD the primary wide open. Not just one but TWO stuck throttles would be VERY bad, I think. Turns out the problem was LITERALLY a sticky secondary. It was filthy. I took off some of the springs and wheels and knocked out the throttle plates and removed the rods and cleaned the bores where they went it, and it turns much more freely now. Had to leave for work before I could get it completely reassembled, but I expect it not to freeze anymore. My only remaining concern now is the small screws on the top of the middle part of the carb, next to the float bowl. I could NOT get one of them out, and I hope I got enough cleaner down in there. I'd hate to have to head to a junkyard and try and find another carb just to replace that part of the carb and do this over again.

Edited by Captain Regular, 23 October 2008 - 01:03 AM.


#42
Captain Regular

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I haveth a very specific question for DarkHand, or anybody that's done this before. What size socket should I get for removal of the power valve, at the bottom of the float chamber? The smallest metric size I have is 7mm, and I tried a 7/32 (too small) and a 1/4 (too large) so it's DEFINITELY a metric socket, but is it a 5 or 6? Or can I even do it with a regular socket?

#43
DarkHand

QUOTE (Captain Regular @ Oct 25 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haveth a very specific question for DarkHand, or anybody that's done this before. What size socket should I get for removal of the power valve, at the bottom of the float chamber? The smallest metric size I have is 7mm, and I tried a 7/32 (too small) and a 1/4 (too large) so it's DEFINITELY a metric socket, but is it a 5 or 6? Or can I even do it with a regular socket?


6mm socket. I tried using a 1/4" at first as well and almost rounded it off. Mine was stuck though, if yours is lose you might be able to pull it with the 1/4", but it's soft brass so go easy.
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#44
Captain Regular

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I can think of one more question (for now, anyway) before I put this back together. On the back of the carb, I've got these two ports side-by-side, they're capped in all the devacs, and they're towards the bottom. Below them is what I'm 99% sure is the idle mixture adjustment screw, for adjusting the fuel-air mixture ratio, right? In the attached picture, I've circled the two vacuum ports in yellow and the idle mixture screw in red. What the hell is the green one? It's got like a plastic flathead "screw" in it, but the hole for the screwdriver is VERY fat, like a special screw. Can I or should I take it out? It would appear to have something to do with the two yellow-circled ports. Basically, what is EVERYTHING in this picture and what does it do?


#45
zakats

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cap off the yellows and leave the other two along I belive- I'd need to see it in person


hell i dont even know what you circled in the others- looks like random casting voids to me in that picture
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