29 replies to this topic

[Frank]

Alright guys first let me start this with I did a obd1 b18a swap into the car run great except for bad rings. Picked up a b18b built it and finally replaced the a1 with the b1. The swap ran fine till it got cold as shit here and the car barely starts. I figured since the b1 was obd2 and I still had the stock intake and throttle (due to the thermostat I left it that way) that there was no fitv and that obd2s had the ecu control the iacv for cold starts. So I replaced the throttle body with a newer a1 throttle that had the same design as the obd2 but with the fitv yay! Thought that would fix the problem but no.

So even pressing down the gas pedal before the start ( to increase the air flow and it works around when its 40 degrees plus) doesn't start it just dies and I have to push start it.

Any ideas? I was getting ready to turbo but this shit happened and I want this shit to be over.

[Bubba]

Is there an air temp sensor? Or does this ECU use the coolant temp sensor to decide if it needs to richen the mix when it gets really cold? You might look at replacing/testing those.

[Frank]

I believe the ecu uses the coolant temp. But the sensor itself is fairly new. I'm completely stump and I don't believe the fitv or iacv is bad. Let me describe how it goes.

Get in try to turn the car over and it is as tho the battery is almost dead ( which shouldn't be it's a brand new heel toe batt) and it will turn over for a split second and dies. When I say turn over its more like a put put dies. And I can't turn it over cause its like flooded. It will start with a push start but I'm a fairly skinny man and its a workout I can live without.

Any ideas?

[patricj]

Got an amp in the car? My amp seems to draw my Heeltoe battery down with the car off/ parked. it's unplugged until I figure it out.

[Frank]

No amp but nothing is left on its just like this only when cold. I'm stumped.

[Frank]

Come on no one has any ideas? It's getting colder and harder to start!!

[KSousa]

is your battery smaller than oem? If so I would recommend getting a normal size battery for the cold months, then switch back when it warms up. As it gets colder, batteries lose their ability to push amperage. It could very well be that the battery just cant push out enough amps at the cold temps to turn your engine enough to start, especially since the 1.8 takes more juice to turn over than the old 1.5 did, hence the push start still works. some people in colder climates will use a battery warmer over night for easier start in the morning.

[Bubba]

If you can push start it OK when it is cold, then it sounds like the electrical system is being overloaded. When you crank it with the starter in warm weather- does the starter crank the engine nice and fast? If not- the starter bushings may be bad and the armature rubbing internally. I have had this issue in the past- it really slows the starter down and puts a big drain on the battery.

[Frank]

Ok for bubba the starter cranks the same warm or cold.

So I replaced the battery with a 700 cca and while it does sound like it wants to go it just doesn't. Then I found out that this obd2 iacv is a 3 wire while I'm obd1 uses a 2 wire iacv so I bought a new intake and reused my obd1 iacv and it idles like a champ (I cleaned it too). I don't know what else to do I swear its flooding itself when trying to start in the cold that's why I have to push start it.
Any more ideas anyone? Btw no codes are being thrown.

[xFactor]

<sup>Some thoughts here,
You feel the engine is flooding. What does the tail pipe smell like during all this?

Usually when you hold open the throttle during cranking, the ecu will enter flood clear mode, where it doesn't inject fuel.

I can see only one reason why the ecu would behave differently between key start vs. push start. It's all rpm based, like 200rpm is crank mode (richer than run mode), and at 400+rpm it transitions to run mode. So are you push starting it down a big hill, where it would be more than 400rpm?? But it's cold out, and engines need more fuel to start at those temperatures. None of that makes sense.

I'm betting you have a poor electrical connection somewhere. Start with the grounds. Look at the main ground from battery to chassis and engine, and check the main relay gound (brown wires) on the head near the coolant temp sensors. Maybe during cranking there is a nasty voltage drop to the ecu or main relay, and thats why it push starts. A good multimeter is your friend...

later, matt</sup>

Edited by xFactor, 23 December 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[Frank]

The reason why I feel it's flooding is cause of 2 reasons. 1. If trying to cold start it and it doesn't catch it dies and it won't start and just crank and crank until the battery dies unless I take the plugs out let it sit over night for it to clear out. 2. When upon push starting it expels a ton of amount of smoke that smells like extreme gas once running the smoke goes away.

I talked to my dad who was a hot rodder back in the day and he gave some opinions since I'm running high comp that perhaps not enough air is being introduced and since it is cold the ecu dumps more fuel and prevents a good combustion he then told me to try to retard the timing and it might help (I've had it pretty advanced) so far it dropped to around freezing point here and it has been starting up after sitting for a couple of hours I'll try again in the morning after its been sitting overnight.

[Frank]

Well tried again this morning and no luck just died again. It did want to try and start and go but nope.

[Frank]

Alright so I took your advice and checked all connections. Took the thermostat ground off wire brushes both ends and put it together then I took both positive and neg on the starter and did the same. I rechecked all connections to make sure everything was nice and secure. I didn't multimeter cause I don't have anyone here ( due to holidays) to help turn the motor over when I check. But it still is doing the same trying to cold start it. It catches upon start up but something is preventing to actually keep it running.
Just imagine you get into your car put the key in turn the key to the 2 position. You hear the pmfig beep and flash along with the battery and oil. You now turn the key the motor cranks for less then a second and you feel and hear it catch then it just stops. Turn the key again and it's just cranking and cranking till I push start it and expel all this fumes of gas almost unbreathable and its running with help of you pressing the throttle till it warms up alittle.
When the car is warmed up it starts up and drives fine this only occurs when it's cold out like 45 and under.

I really want this fixed and I want it nipped in the butt.

[Bubba]

If the ECU uses the coolant temp sensor output to enrichen the engine when it is cold, I suggest that you unplug the coolant temp sensor connector and try to start it. Obviously this is not a solution, but it can give you a clue as to what is going on.

Does the idle control valve work correctly (will the car idle at at the same speed if you turn lights on and the fan on full blast or does the engine rpm decrease)?

[Frank]

I haven't tried to unplug the coolant temp plug under the dizzy and won't be able to till tomorrow.

Since the iacv was changed back to obd1 the car idles fine a slight bounce from here to there nothing as bad as before. And when the car is warmed up turning on the lights and whatnot does drop the idle slightly but returns to normal right after.


I have noticed that upon starting it (when I push start) I can let the car heat up and shut it off and return a couple of hours and it will start even when the heat gauge says its still cold as balls. But when left alone for say 8 hours it doesn't start.

I did try putting a space heater on the engine with no help. Could the ignitor be bad? The dizzy was brand new about 8 months old with only 4k miles on it.