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Carburetor Research!


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#16
DarkHand

I wound the return spring tighter yesterday, that seems to have solved the throttle return problem. The lack of a choke is killing me though and I really don't want to have to add it back, so I'm thinking of other options.

The choke limits the amount of air entering the carb at startup, thereby richening the mixture. I'm wondering if cranking open the idle mixture screw a bit would achieve the same thing. But the idle would then be too rich after the car warmed up. Is there a startup enrichment jet of some sort that I'm missing? If so it could probably be drilled out and enlarged to make up for the lack of choke. Any other ideas?


QUOTE (yuriy89 @ Apr 20 2008, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does the vacum lime from the front of the carb goes 2 dizzy? Thanx.


Yep! The one line from the carb to the distributor is the only vacuum line left. No float bowl vent to keep closed, and no secondary to actuate (it's mechanical now).
DarkHand

#17
yuriy89

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Yep! The one line from the carb to the distributor is the only vacuum line left. No float bowl vent to keep closed, and no secondary to actuate (it's mechanical now).
[/quote]



Thanx, halpe't alot. do u have any pics from the back and top of the carb? cuz im trying to do a devac on my wagon, but i already did tha same like on your carb that thing with secondary plate, it rely works,

#18
DarkHand

QUOTE (yuriy89 @ Apr 22 2008, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanx, halpe't alot. do u have any pics from the back and top of the carb? cuz im trying to do a devac on my wagon,


Don't have any more than what's here yet, but I'll take pictures from all angles this weekend when I remove the carb again.

QUOTE (yuriy89 @ Apr 22 2008, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
but i already did tha same like on your carb that thing with secondary plate, it rely works,


Great! Anassa, looks like you missed out on 'first tester' biggrin.gif

The cool thing about the secondary mod is that it's reversible. If the mod doesn't drive well, just snip the zip ties and hook the vacuum line back up.
DarkHand

#19
andrew87crx

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I noticed the same thing when I had my carb out, I used mechanical wire to hold them together. Does it matter which vacum line goes to the advance? Also mine already had a throttle adjustment like the one you made, with a black knob on it. it was useless before the devac, but now that is what I use.
"To seek wisdom is wise, to think you are wise is foolish."

#20
DarkHand

QUOTE (andrew87crx @ Apr 24 2008, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I noticed the same thing when I had my carb out, I used mechanical wire to hold them together.


Ah ha! I knew I couldn't have been the first to link the secondary that way in all these years! smile.gif


QUOTE (andrew87crx @ Apr 24 2008, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does it matter which vacum line goes to the advance?


Not really, what matters is that it's connected to a venturi vacuum source. Any port you can find that has lower vacuum at idle and higher vacuum as the RPMs go up would work. The one normally used just happens to be a good one. I've never tested which has stronger vacuum though, I just might check that out.

QUOTE (andrew87crx @ Apr 24 2008, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also mine already had a throttle adjustment like the one you made, with a black knob on it. it was useless before the devac, but now that is what I use.


Yep! That's the Canadian/Accord adjuster. I wonder if someone had swapped the carb or just that adjuster in the past, or hmm.. Maybe it was offered on US cars somewhere.
DarkHand

#21
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Anyone have an update on this thread?
87 CRX DX, "Pip Squeek"
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92 Ford Probe GT Turbo: it blew up, got stripped, and then crushed....back to my CRX...What was I thinking...Oh yea it was free.
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#22
DarkHand

QUOTE (CarNutCertifies @ May 27 2008, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone have an update on this thread?


Nothing yet, but I've decided to add the choke and choke opener back onto the carb... that'll be my next project. Which will be an interesting one since I chewed up the little choke plate screws a bit while removing them. biggrin.gif
DarkHand

#23
Screech

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Are you adding a manual choke? Or are you going back to the USDM style?

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#24
DarkHand

QUOTE (Screech @ May 27 2008, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you adding a manual choke? Or are you going back to the USDM style?


I considered the manual option, but I'd need to scrounge up the parts from the Great White North, while I've got the USDM parts right here. smile.gif
DarkHand

#25
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[/quote] I also made a block off plate for the float bowl vent using 16ga sheetmetal and the original o-ring, since I've been removing every unnecessary part from the carb. One less vacuum hose to worry about!



I considered filling the entire opening with JB putty, but the small bronze vent above the center of the plate in the pic also goes straight to the float bowl. Filling the opening with putty would have blocked this opening as well, which I didn't want to do. The plate seals off the old vent diaphragm opening, but keeps this other vent open.

Today is supposed to be a whopping 74 degrees for a high, after a good few weeks of 40 degree weather. I'm going to try to leave work early today, swap in the new carb, and give 'er a test!
[/quote]

So what does this do for the float bowl overflow? Did you just do away with it? Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt the part that attached to where this plate is act as the overflow for the float?

Edited by CarNutCertifies, 30 May 2008 - 03:04 AM.

87 CRX DX, "Pip Squeek"
87 CRX DX "Parts Car"
86 CRX SI "Currently being built" DD
86 CRX DX "The Project" -(retired) - stripped
71 Chevy PU
81 Chevy PU
01 Dodge Ram 1500 (sold/traded)
97 Honda prelude DD
92 Jeep Cherokee "Slug" (parts)
91 Jeep Cherokee "Slug II"
92 Ford Probe GT Turbo: it blew up, got stripped, and then crushed....back to my CRX...What was I thinking...Oh yea it was free.
Ford........At least they circled the problem...
38 Desoto 2 door sedan (a project that I will someday get around to)

#26
DarkHand

QUOTE (CarNutCertifies @ May 30 2008, 02:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So what does this do for the float bowl overflow? Did you just do away with it? Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt the part that attached to where this plate is act as the overflow for the float?


We've been using it as an overflow in devacced cars, but it's meant to be the vent line for gas fumes to go to the charcoal canister when the car is off. When it's back on, the fumes return from the canister and are sucked into the carb through the little bronze tube just above the blockoff plate in the picture. That's directly connected to the bowl as well, so there's still a way for fumes (and overflow if need be) to get out.
DarkHand

#27
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Oh ok I saw that last night and drew concerns... As usual this looks like a mod I am going to do.....I got out run last night by a piece of crap mx6 with one of the biggest fart can mufflers one can put on it.....So some tweeking is in order.
87 CRX DX, "Pip Squeek"
87 CRX DX "Parts Car"
86 CRX SI "Currently being built" DD
86 CRX DX "The Project" -(retired) - stripped
71 Chevy PU
81 Chevy PU
01 Dodge Ram 1500 (sold/traded)
97 Honda prelude DD
92 Jeep Cherokee "Slug" (parts)
91 Jeep Cherokee "Slug II"
92 Ford Probe GT Turbo: it blew up, got stripped, and then crushed....back to my CRX...What was I thinking...Oh yea it was free.
Ford........At least they circled the problem...
38 Desoto 2 door sedan (a project that I will someday get around to)

#28
DarkHand

Choke is back on the carb!

Wasn't the easiest thing to put back together, but wasn't insanely hard, either. I'm glad I had 2 other complete carbs to reference though. smile.gif

It seems Honda hammers down on the back end of the little screws that attach the choke plate to the choke rod, probably to make sure they don't back out and fall down the carb throat. Removing them wasn't easy, and tore up the threads pretty badly. Fortunately I had a tap and a die that were the right sizes (M3x0.5, my very smallest ones) to clean up the threads on the screws and in the choke rod. They're now locked down with blue threadlock instead.

Here's the back of the choke controller. The notched piece in the lower left is the fast idle cam. When the choke is closed, it acts as a throttle stop, keeping it open more than usual. As the choke opens, the cam moves, pulling different notches against the throttle stop, which slowly lowers the idle until it's disengaged and resting against the main idle control stop. On an emissions car, the black plastic fast idle diaphragm slowly pulls on the cam to lower the idle as the car warms up automatically, but on a devacced car, the diaphragm is disconnected. The cam still works, but you need to tap the throttle to get it to change. Since the fast idle diaphragm was useless now, I removed it.


In the picture above, just behind the fast idle cam, you can see the arm that the fast idle diaphragm arm normally connects to. It's supposed to be rotated about 90 degrees, but without the diaphragm arm in place it hangs loosely and interferes with the cam.

Here's the offending piece:


The arm also acts as a spacer for the rest of the linkage, so I couldn't just remove it. A few seconds with a dremel fixed it though:


Of course there's really no reason that you need to remove the diaphragm in the first place, in fact I'm starting to wish I hadn't because I have an idea to get it working even with a devac (more on that later). Good thing I've got spares!

Here's the choke and the controller reinstalled, minus the fast idle diaphragm. I actually originally removed the diapgragm to rebuild it, but one of the screws wouldn't budge and snapped off. I drilled it out and retapped the hole, but I was a tiny bit off center and the new hole didn't quite line up. Some slotting of the black plastic housing made it sort of work, but I wasn't happy with it. Once again I'm glad I've got spares. smile.gif


When I reconnected the bimetallic coil to the choke, I aligned it so the choke's a bit open at 'fully closed'. I figured since I only needed to cover the chokeless carb with my hand about halfway to get it to start, a completely closed choke at startup wasn't necessary:


When I tested it, it worked pretty much as intended except that the choke opened way too quickly... It was fully open within about 60 seconds... Not nearly enough time for the carb to warm up. To stick with this method, I'll need to put a resistor inline with the bimetallic coil, to drop the current that reaches it in order to open it more slowly. I've got one other idea as well...

I've been trying to figure out a way to put the 'automatic' back into the fast idle controller, the black plastic part normally controlled by vacuum that yanks the fast idle cam out when the car reaches temperature. I thought about connecting the bimetallic spring right to the arm that the diaphragm normally controls (the piece I cut out), which would have meant that as soon as the choke opens, the idle would drop mechanically (similar to the secondary mod). The coil is too weak for that though. While it can adjust the position of the fast idle cam when it's not pressed against the throttle, it's not strong enough to move it under the weight of the throttle spring (which is why you need to tap the throttle to drop the idle on a devacced car... once you lift the weight of the throttle stop off of the fast idle cam, the bimetallic spring can act).

What could work though is to connect the fast idle controller 'drop idle' port to a vacuum source... through one of the thermovalves on the intake manifold. Once the car reaches the right temperature, the thermovalve would open, applying vacuum to the fast idle port, which drops the idle without having to tap the gas. Pretty much the way it was designed to work, but without the complication of the whole emissions system. No fiddling with different value resistors, either. This would eliminate the coil instead of the fast idle diaphragm. The tricky part would be figuring out which thermovalve opens at what temperature, and which temperature is optimal for the carb.

That's where I'm at so far!

While I was taking pictures I took a shot of my 'massive' one-car garage in its current state for good measure. It's getting cramped down there!!! smile.gif


DarkHand

#29
badpenny

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#30
eivad1

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whats happening with this project