9 replies to this topic

[gbm]

Is there a 134 system from another car that would fit relatively easily into my 87 crx dx? The original ac doesn't work. Maybe I could use part of the original system, like the evaporator and fan. I did this with my other car, a 90 geo metro. I bought a complete 134 system from a newer geo metro in a junkyard and replaced the original R12 system. It cost about $150 and it has worked well for 7 years. Also, does anybody know if R12 can be bought cheaply in Mexico?

[badpenny]

craigslist.org mainly autoparts and free and garage sale sections
and ebay are your best bets. For the r-12. Most auto parts places have a conversion piece to accept the 134.

[xfurb]

I understand the reason for trying to replace the Keihin A/C compressor. Even when they were new they sucked at cooling. I understand that there is a different compressor made by Sandyn that fits. I’m told that it requires a mounting bracket and maybe the hoses -everything else is the same. Retrofitting to r134 is not recommended by 4-seasons for the Keihin: “The Honda Keihin compressor should not be retrofitted. The use of a compressor conversion kit should be used where applicable.” The compressor conversion kit I think is the Sandyn. When I looked for a Sandyn Compressor It was going to cost an arm and a leg if it could even be found. I learned this after a half rate shop converted me to 134 and blew up the compressor. Pissed off I tore apart the compressor and found a blown o-ring... everything else in the compressor seemed in working order. So I went to Mcmaster.com and order neoprene size 134 metric o-rings special made had to buy 50 o-rings- minimum order thing- grand total of 12 bucks. Replaced all four. Recharged the system with 134 –about 22oz- been running for 5-years, still sucks in the cooling department. But for 12 bucks as a posed to 300ish for a remanufacture and a “Not recommended” from 4-seasons- I think I scored. If you want to give this rebuild a go. I have o-rings!

~dan

[kenny86si]

r12 in mexico is about $8.50 a can. The best thing to do there is take your car down and charge it there. IT is your safest bet, you dont want to get caught bringing it over the border. Although there are a lot of people that do. The freon is made by dupont; but it just has spanish writing so the quality should be the same.

[LargeOrangeFont]

I understand the reason for trying to replace the Keihin A/C compressor.  Even when they were new they sucked at cooling.  I understand that there is a different compressor made by Sandyn that fits.  I’m told that it requires a mounting bracket and maybe the hoses -everything else is the same.  Retrofitting to r134 is not recommended by 4-seasons for the Keihin: “The Honda Keihin compressor should not be retrofitted. The use of a compressor conversion kit should be used where applicable.” The compressor conversion kit I think is the Sandyn.  When I looked for a Sandyn Compressor It was going to cost an arm and a leg if it could even be found.  I learned this after a half rate shop converted me to 134 and blew up the compressor.  Pissed off I tore apart the compressor and found a blown o-ring... everything else in the compressor seemed in working order.  So I went to Mcmaster.com and order neoprene size 134 metric o-rings special made had to buy 50 o-rings- minimum order thing- grand total of 12 bucks. Replaced all four. Recharged the system with 134 –about 22oz- been running for 5-years, still sucks in the cooling department.  But for 12 bucks as a posed to 300ish for a remanufacture and a “Not recommended” from 4-seasons-  I think I scored.  If you want to give this rebuild a go.  I have o-rings!

~dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice tip. I might take you up on that. The compressor on mine was gone when I bought it. Either that or buy a new compressor on Ebay for $90 bucks.

Edited by LargeOrangeFont, 09 January 2006 - 01:50 PM.

[xfurb]

One of the problems I ran into was the conflicting information about r12 and r134. Keihin used Buna-n O-ring material that is not compatible with either PAG or Ester compressor oil according an old A/C web site I found. I was a tad bit leery buying a 300 dollar a/c compressor and charge it with r134 to find out that the oil I need to use with 134 is not compatible with the compressor. In hind sight, for all I know, the shop that charged the system could have overcharged it. 90 bucks for a compressor sounds like a good deal.
~dan

[LargeOrangeFont]

One of the problems I ran into was the conflicting information about r12 and r134.  Keihin used Buna-n O-ring material that is not compatible with either PAG or Ester compressor oil according an old A/C web site I found.  I was a tad bit leery buying a 300 dollar a/c compressor and charge it with r134 to find out that the oil I need to use with 134 is not compatible with the compressor.  In hind sight, for all I know, the shop that charged the system could have overcharged it.  90 bucks for a compressor sounds like a good deal.
~dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see them constantly on Ebay for that price. I am thinking just get one and try to charge it w\ r134a.

Edited by LargeOrangeFont, 09 January 2006 - 09:53 PM.

[gkiing]

Ac is dumb in my opinion, it just adds weight and drains your battery and cuts your mileage. But however

you will have a lot of trouble charging the system with r134a because r12 is only miscible with pag or alkylbenzene oil and r134a must use POE oil. If you charge it with r134a the system won't carry oil and the compressor will eventually die.. might not even take long.

What you can charge it with is r414b "hot shot", a replacement for r12 or you can use propane (if you're risky, since using more than 500g of propane in any refrigeration/ac system isint good).

My last job was in refrigeration, but I got bored of it and quit.

Edited by gkiing, 09 January 2006 - 11:45 PM.

[xfurb]

I agree that an AC is a lot of weight and drag. But 120 degree Fahrenheit or 49 degrees Celsius in the shade roughly registers to about 160 degrees Fahrenheit or 71 degrees Celsius in the car with the windows down. I’ll deal with the power loss... But it is a dry heat!

I didn’t know about r414b, even though it’s been around since ’97, sounds like a good deal- close characteristics to r12 and defiantly better r134. But like r12 it not available in the states. Propane is good alternative but if you over charge a system with that you need to replace more than an o-ring. Compressed highly flammable gas flowing under a hood with hot exhaust and spark generating devices- sounds like the making of fine hydrogen filed German engineered blimp.

My reference to Ester oil I believe is what you call POE. PAG is not recommended for retrofit because it doesn’t get along with other lubricants- it was introduced as the “new” oil for the new refrigerant r134a and is not used with r12 system at all. It appears that a Chlorinated refrigerant like r12 destroys it lubricating properties. It has been said that 134 is not recommended for retrofitting a mineral or alkybenzene lubricated system because it will starve a compressor of oil, because it is not miscible with it. But if you drain the compressor of its oil (how, I don’t know I didn’t see a drain plug) and replace it with an Ester or POE oil, replace the receiver/dryer (per auto manufacturer) that should be all you need.

Short story long- talk to a couple of HVAC people in your area see what they recommend. Pretty sure, pertaining to 134 -it will be replace oil with Ester(POE) and a new receiver/dryer. United States is a bit different in laws and regulations –hell I think even the laws and regs vary state to state... no just california’s...

~dan

[pmpicci]

All the stuff about the oils is moot. It was initially thought that the oil and refrigerant would need to both be changed. However, now they know that due to the properties of R-12 and R-134a, the old oil doesn't mix and just sits at the bottom of the system. The retrofit kits work off of this idea and tell you that you should not mix the refrigerants. They claim it doesn't cool as well. Maybe not, but I have added the R-134a into two car's systems and it worked fine. The main problem is that if you lose refrigerant, then you have a leak. If you don't fix that problem, then the stuff leaks out again unless it's a really tiny leak that the stop-leak stuff can fix (not likely by the time you realize you're out of refrigerant). The problem with getting R-12 is that Mexico doesn't have the legal system of the US. Many times, they do partially fill the bottle with propane. I'd sure like to know how A/C driven off of a crank can drain a battery. It aint a dry heat here in VA, and when the car isn't moving, open windows don't work so well. 70 lbs is worth it. I just don't waste my weight with retarded stereo equip.