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Crx - B18c1 Jdm Swap


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#196
anjin

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The controllers and ecu itself come in at least two versions, with different protocols. So the old Commander won't talk to the new Power FC.  So rather than source a new controller I bought the FCDatalogit software, which allows pretty full access and editing to the maps and settings.  Been an interesting few sessions.

 

I copied and wrote the old tuner settings across to the new ecu.  On fire-up I had very high air fuel ratios - in the 20's.  Quick shut-down and check showed I had ticked the wrong box in a setting and told the ecu that the airflow was only half what was actually happening.  Second time I still had af ratio's in the 17's and 18's.  Shut it down again and spent quite some time looking at the maps and comparing them with a 'standard' B18C map that came as part of the package. 

 

The standard map had higher settings in the low rev low throttle off-vtec area I was testing in, so I upped the injector cycles and got the af ratio's into the 11's to be safe.  Much safer to run rich than lean.  It was fun changing settings while the engine was running and watching what was happening.  I'll continue to play in this area until the af ratios are in the low 14's.  And then drive to a tuner to remap the rest.

 

I should explain that the previous tune was for an LS VTEC build with much the same compression as this block, but a different head and skunk 2 pro 2 cams instead of Toda spec B.  So I expected small differences, as the lift of both cams is pretty similar and the current head didn't have a lot of work (old one was standard).  But not 20% in af ratios.  If it is a difference in behaviour then I'm getting a lot more air into the engine, and that should mean more power.  Alsso bigger injectors and fuel pump, as I was maxing both out before in the previous engine at 174 whp.

 

Currently I have a cooling problem which is cutting the tuning sessions short. The water temperature spikes rapidly, but returns to normal quickly on shut-down.  I'm talking 10 seconds.  I suspect I have a circuit problem in the cooling, with maybe the thermostate not opening when it should because hot water isn't getting to it at the right time; or a hose collasping.  It certainly isn't the radiator - new - or the water pump - near new.

 

So I'm learning new stuff - programming the ecu and seeing the back end of all the fuel correction and ignition correction stuff that goes on in the ecu's.


anjin aka Ian

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#197
anjin

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Been a while.

The cooling problem was the circuit.  The water pipe across the back of the block has several different configurations depending on which engine you take them from, as does the thermostat housing.  I picked a combination to not have a heater circuit and reduce points of failure. First mistake.  There are two water circuits - one from the water pump, along the water pipe, bypassing the thermostat into the head, and then back to the water pump.  When the water is hot enough, the thermostat opens and water also cycles through the radiator.  I took the bypass hose off a take-off pipe half way along the water pipe. Second mistake.

The end result was that the hot water was going halfway along the water pipe, and was not heating up the thermostat as it was at the end of the pipe. The thermostat didn't open at the correct time, and the engine got hot. Changed the thermostat housing so that the bypass pipe took off from close to the thermostat.

 

Still tuning the ecu - haven't done a lot on this one the last couple of months.

 

 

Now looking at building another hydro gearbox - the later 1998 on integra S80 box.  The diff is a larger diameter - 138mm versus 130 mm pcd on the bolts for the ring gear and diff.  I have a cusco plate lsd diff that fits, and there are 5.167 final drives out there.  That would allo me to return the mugen plate diff in the current gearbox to the CG browntop gearbox as part of a mugen replica race car build I want to do.


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#198
anjin

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Little update.  The hydro clutch was very heavy and a pain to drive, so I am back with a the cable box and obx helical lsd.  A much nicer drive.

 

Picked up a B20 vtec engine as part of a swap of parts.  The compression is low - around 9 - and the power is at 100 hp.   I also have a T3/T4 turbo. And an eagle crank chaft for a B18/b20.  Haven't done a turbo build yet, so this may be the next iteration in this project.  Be a while before I start as Noir has priority, but I'll update as I put the bits together.


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#199
sedanman

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What kind of issues did you have with the hydro?

Every conversion box or linkage that still involved the factory cable that i tried didnt work out really hard to push the pedal and i was streching cables but since i put a master cylinder on the pedal set it feels like a stock eg clutch

inhl5t.jpg

Hers a pic if you have any questions let me know

Billy.

Edited by sedanman, 23 September 2015 - 03:42 PM.


#200
anjin

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Hi Billy

 

I have  followed your build, and I could emulate your solution.  A local has done something similar to you with fitting a mater cylinder to the pedal box, and recommend it.

 

I was trying the various cable to hydro kits, and the pedal effort was too high for easy driving, which is why I reverted back to cable only. The reason I went hydro was because at the power the engine was generating the helical lsd I had was slipping a bit through corners, and I had a plate lsd but it was for a hydro gearbox. I decided i can  live with a bit of slip


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#201
sedanman

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If i knew enough to rebuild a trans i would of stayed cable.
I just find it easier to find a hydro unit in decent shape

But yeah i dont understand the folks that said the cable to hydro conversions worked, they do just so badly lol


Billy.

#202
anjin

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I have no problems rebuilding a transmission - scarey the first time, just difficult thereafter.  The problem was the plate lsd was for the later model hydro boxes which have a larger diameter ring gear, and the cable boxes didn't come with that larger size. The lsd came at a good price, and I didn't want to spend more for the correct size one.  I thought a conversion would be the lesser of the two evils.

 

The kits on the market don't seem to have the correct ratios of levers. What I have seen is you need a lever where the clutch cylinder attachment point is half way along the lever, and the kits have a lesser ratio at about 40/60 rather than 50/50. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but it is at the foot pedal.


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#203
anjin

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Upgraded to 550cc injectors last weekend.  Two reasons - I was seeing a lot of variation an air fuel ratios at steady throttle and though the 1994 injectors might be a problem; and out on the track I was seeing 100% duty cycle warnings at about 8500 rpm, and that was with the earlier less agressive cams and more standard head. Dialled down the duty cycle by 50% and the car is now running with better af ratios in the 12-13 range rather than 14-15, and seemingly less variation.  Now have to look at upgrading the fuel pump as I am pretty sure that is the next choke point with the engine likely to be getting up into the 180 bhp at the wheels range,  Its all fun.


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#204
sedanman

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Man i bet that car is fun to beat on. Ive always wanted to do an all motor build tuned up in a light car.

Got any videos gettin on it ?
What kind of injectors did you get?

Billy.

#205
anjin

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Hi Billy.  No recent videos - not something I do a lot of.  Couple of old ones including this car.  It is fun to push it round a track.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF_613xMUrY

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBdcMJygNoc

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljFzP7qNxN0

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeiSTVvWJeg

 

Injectors are Deutchworks.


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#206
anjin

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Wow - over a year since I updated. Indicates not much has happened.

 

Engine finally got a proper tune.  I was trying to do it myself, but the af ratios were all over the place, so took it to a proper tuner. As part of the process he found that the tps was giving a varying signal - the voltage essentially dropped after 5 to 10 seconds then popped up again. So he just disconnected it, and tuned without the tps. Only downsides are a permanent MIL, and a loping idle.

 

Around 200whp. As the power varies by machine and atmospheric conditions etc, I don't pay much attention to the actual figure. This tuner does tune both off vtec and on vtec across a wide band, then picks the cross over. 3500 rpm.

 

Gone back to standard  (grey) front and rear bumpers, as I am slowly taking the car back to a street configuration. Even started driving to work in a rotation with my gen 2 crx's. Must say the work trip can be a bit more entertaining with that power available.


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#207
anjin

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Still driving it.  No significant changes apart from some rust I cant get rid of in the sides of the roof.  Just retired from work, so expect to be doing stuff.


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#208
rpr

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Looking at your old posts I'm surprised you never got a satisfactory experience with the hydro-cable conversion. Darren and I built one from junk parts and it worked beautifully, maybe the off the shelf ones just never got the leverage point correct. I still have those parts btw.... :)


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#209
anjin

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Thanks for the observations. Partly to do with being right hand drive. The clutch cable isn't quite long enough to reach properly. And a bit too much slack in the linkages. I have mocked up my own using eg parts, including a remote reservoir, that I will  use in the near future with a hydro type R box. Probably mount it on the side of the engine bay as its a bit tight. Have an oil cooler in there now as well.


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#210
Old School REX

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Always loved following your build!  Nice to hear you still use it.  I finally went full hydro with my B18C swap this past year and have loved every minute of it.  10/10, would recommend over the OTS cable to hydro conversion kits.