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Update 2024: 17th Annual Road Trip 1987 Honda Crx - Dallas To Panama


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#166
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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    • Drives: 9 crx's: #1 228k 87si beater, #2 concours 25K, #3 108K 87si, #4 98K parts car, #5 213K 87si parts car, #6 84 straman, #7 86si 150k #8 67k parts #9 129K si for straman conversion

Prepping for the Florida Trip......

 

The car's front left wheel area started making a slight humming noise half way through the last trip to Michigan/New York. I was concerned I might have messed up restraightening that axleback in October causing either the outer joint or wheel bearing to prematurely fail.   I had started an axle rebuilt post of RPR a while back.  I'll update that w the detail and theory behind how I've been collecting the least used Honda OE axles that have never been rebuilt.  The remanufacturers  regrind the races, remove the surface of the hardened steel,  install larger bearing yielding joints that will ultimately fail sooner.  So I'm not a fan of remans.    Since Honda NOS axles are no longer available, that leaves chinese after market axles.  I've not heard good reviews of these chinese axles either.  IMO, its worth the effort to rebuilt the best used OE axles I can find.

 

RPR axle rebuild post:  (to be update shortly w procedures and data collected on some 30 axles sorted through)

 

 

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the spot I straightened the axles last October.   Bending caused from axle impacting torsion bar support here.

 

I wanted to isolate the noise.  So I pulled the drivers axle (axle pulled was an NOS when installed 30-40K ago and still felt very tight -- thinking now this was not the problem) .  And started the axle science project.  I pulled 25 years worth of axles collected.  The past 10 years, I've purchased only used OE Honda axles from the yards w original OE boots/bands.   Goal was to hopefully find low mileage original axles to rebuild somewhat close to new.

 

 

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Got them sorted, labeled with the purchase history, known mileage,  noted OE vs aftermarket and serialized each one for ease of future location from stock.  I'm expecting to get 3-4 really good sets of axles out of this pile.  2 major observations noticed:  1) the longer drivers axles outer joint appear to wear out faster than the shorter passengers outer joint. 2)  The inner joints part number also match the Accord's inner axles (heavier car w a larger engine).  Appears the inner joints wear much less.  I believe they were manufactured better since used on Accords.  My archilles heel is the drivers outer joint.   The outer joints don't pop off the axles per Hondas design.  I think rebuilders used presses back in the day??  I think I've found a way to remove good outer joints on a passenger shaft, then  replacing that good joint for the more worn drivers outer joint.    more to come on this later.  It'll be a destrutive process.  Thats also why I collected all the axles.

 

 

2 months ago. I didn't think I was going to have the time to sort through the used axles.  I went to  the local parts store.  They ordered in 3 reman axles for me.  I bought the one w the smoothest joints (assuming never been rebuilt) with the least amount of rotational slop.  

 

I placed all these axles on the vise measuring/recording outer/inner joint rotational slop. (detail in the RPR post to be updated shortly).

 


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This is the set up i use to measure joint slop.  I measure the slop at the end of the pliers and convert to axial degrees.   I start w NOS Honda axles.  These yield about .35 degrees of slop per joint or .7 Degrees per axle.  I use my  original 259K OE (2.85 degrees total axle slop) as the high end range.  Realistically, the best used OE axles I can find are between .9-1.3 degrees over the entire axle.   

 

To my surprise, the reman axle I bought 2 months ago measured near best of the 30 axle group.   So I opened the reman axle's inner joint to see if its been reworked to a crappy hand machined interference....

 


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To my surprise, the bearings  were smooth and all measured the same.  This pix shows the inside of the inner tulip.  Can see the surface blemish where the roller bearing contacts.  Rubbing my finger over the surfaces, I can't feel a thing.  This inner joint was a lightly used original OE joint. 

 

Next step,  removed the grease out of the outer joints.  Surprisingly, about 10 drops of water came out of this reman joint as I was removing the grease.....   disappointing.    Solvent cleaned them, blew compressed air,  inspected races/balls best i could as I couldn't disassemble.  This joint looked great as well.

 

 

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Rebooted/greased this reman axle w Honda NOS plus added honda bands.  Appears this was a really good original OE axle acquired by the rebuilder I got it from.  Its now installed in the car.   I'll see what this trip yields w this noise issue the cars having.

 

 

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The rebuilder spray painted the entire axle w metallic gray paint.  Used MEK to wipe off most of the paint.  They even painted over the polished sealing surfaces of the inner shaft interface to the transmission.  Note the pencil point.  I really don't want contamination circulating around my tranny oil.   Lastly, their axle was bent.   Took me several hours to work it back to near perfect straightness.  Not happy with this rebuilder.   Too many flaws and sloppy craftsmanship.   It was a excellent base axle.  Worth the effort to me.  All corrected now

Took a couple days to sort through the axle stock, qualify and document.  Replacement of the axle took 1.5hrs.....    I'm not saying I'm doing it  an efficient path.  But knowing its OE quality, tolerance and metallurgy - its worth it to me

 

Walked in my son's room.  Here's a screen shot off his computer screen of my car from his summer adventures w his buddies.  He had fun.

 

 

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Keepin' it OEM

#167
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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CSP, thnx for tip on chedda.    I installed shims on the hinges.   But notice the door can shift once I start driving.   Unibody shifts a little


Keepin' it OEM

#168
CSPCRX

I honestly never used them, just made mental note just in the event I needed them.  Is it possible one of the hinges is loose?


Victor
86 K24 Powered CRX SI (SMF Solo2, HPDE-4 NASA & TA-A Time Attack

85 CRX DX totally original
07 Harley FXST Softail

2021 Tacoma Tow/Daily


#169
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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Treating the floor board rust and searching for water leaks..

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Drivers side rust hole/seam failure just under clutch pedal.  Chipped away the rust.  Wire brushed the metal down.  Treated w Phosphoric acid.  This is not a 100% fix.  Later on I'll prep properly and weld in sheet metal.  Appears the rocker panel looks good.  I've used this acid treatment for years on body work having great luck w rust not coming back or coming back very slow.  Goal here is to neutralize the rust.  Since I dont drive in the rain much and never see salt, I'm good w this for the time being.

 

 

 

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Passenger side after same treatment.  Area is smaller, but a rust bubble up on the rocker wall I don't like.

 

 

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Not having the time to weld it up.  I used a Loctite polyurethane roof/flashing sealant for the time being.  I primed and painted the affected areas.  Let is  cure.  Then applied the poly coating the interior rust.  I laid down a .070" sheet of EPDM rubber, then cut 2 layers of roof flashing to dress the top.  Since the floor board flexes a little if pressed in just the right spot, I needed this to give a little.  I'm sure there's a better sealing product.  Reached out to some body working buddies to query better products for semi flexible seams.  If you have a good recommendation, lmk...   This seal  seams to be good enough to prevent water infiltration for my trips if I need to be in the rain temporarily.

 

 

 

Since I needed to know the condition of the body...  I removed the lower drivers sill.  It was cracking from the last trip and needed to be repaired anyway.

 

 

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Good news is the rocker looks fine.  Car spent a couple years in New Jersey, then Kentucky, then w me in Michigan and back to NYC.  Car was undercoated by a PO before I got it.  I'm happy w the condition considering how many years this car saw salt in the 1980's-90's.

 

 

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Peeled the front drivers fender well liner back to remove hardware for the sill removal.   Looks clean in side here as well.  This view is the wheel well side behind the clutch pedal.   The pen points to where one of the 4 sunroof drain tubes comes out.  I need to open up the interior at both wheel wells and and confirm the tubes are clamped and tight.  These tubes leaked before and i had fixed them back in the 90's.  Issue might have come back allowing water to sit in the floor pans.  Another issue might be A-pillar leaks around the windshield.  I need to replace the cracked windshield  I'll have my glass guy pull the shield and I'll do the bodywork then if needed.

 

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In .attempt deaden the sound a little more, I laid down a thin layer of carpet on the floor before reinstalling the original carpet.  There wasn't factory deadener over the hump where the exhaust runs.  I have some spare fire wall deadeners from parted cars.  Going to see later if I can double layer the fire wall to quiet the motor a little while on the highway.  Difficult to talk on a cell - noisy.  The carpeting and interior smells great.   Will monitor the floor boards if I have to drive in the rain looking  for water infiltration down the road.  I"m sure I've got unresolved issues somewhere

 

 

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Finally installed the dangling fog light switch from 2 years ago.

 
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Raising the drivers door striker pushed the door back into alignment and worked great.  But the latch drags too much from loose hinges and sage.  Have to really slam the door.   I did some calcs and figured I needed about .045" shimming on the bottom hinge set to lift the door about .250-300".  Cut shims out of roof flashing.
 
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Works great.  Ball point pen shows shims.   Door closes nice wo drag.  The bottom hinge really was loose while I was doing the job.  At some point, I'll need to pull a good set of hinges off a passenger door of of lower mileage car as they are reversible to rebuilt.  Going to add .010" shimming the passenger door while I"m at it
a

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#170
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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Plastics repair time! 

 

I pulled off the drivers plastic sill (rocker) panel to inspection for rust in the rocker area a few weeks ago.  The sill panel cracked 2 years ago near the gas filler when I pulled her out of a 45f garage and drove it in 0F winter freeze storm.  The rapid thermal contraction cracked my door caps and lower rocker sills.  Common problem.  Not to mention 36 year old plastics.

 

 

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Years ago back woods hunting in Michigan, I drove through a large puddle/bowl down a 2 track.  Placed a patch on the outside to hold it together and prevent further cracking.  fortunately, this never cracked the whole way through.
 

 

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This last October trip, the drivers door sagged and  punched a hole into the sill via the door corner.  To the lower right of the hole, there's a crack starting at a 45d angle downward.  This same 45d angled crack is on the passenger side as well.  Must be body flex taking its toll on the aging plastics.

 

 

 

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When I removed the rubber bumper guard trim, the plastics broke more.   Using the 3M 2216, gluing it back together in stages.   Used wire to hold in place while it cured.

 

 

 

 

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After refitting the final piece, used modeling clay to fit check clearances between the sill panel and unibody

 

 

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a

 

Used Saturn S series front door skins to rebuild the CRX sill from the back side.  Went overkill and really beefed up this area.

 


 

 

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Cut long strips to reinforce the length of the interior sill as well.  Parts a bit heavier now w the additional plastic and glue.  But its pretty solid now.  No interference w the body.  Was running out of time for the Florida trip.  So stopped here.  Will pull it off after the trip to reinforce some other areas.

 

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I had collected 4 front door panels off 96-99 Saturn S series cars at a junkyard.  The 3 1/2 panels left over in the pix to the left (silver/white).  I try to buy my plastics up North as less heat and UV damage is assumed.  These I got here in Texas.  Purposely pulled silver and white as those colors reflect UV the best.  Before i pulled these off the cars, I used a pair of pliers to bust a corner out of the panels.  As long as the break was a "tear" and not a "crack", they're good!  As i cut strips off the door w the recipocating saw, I purposely broke sample areas of the material.  The areas tore and turned white as I yielded them.   So these used panels are great repair material to use.   GM still has some of these panels NOS in stock.  I happened to find an NOS panel on ebay and just got it in for 1/3 the price.  Its the grey primered one to the right in the picture.  I'll save this one for when i need the strongest repair.

 

I mentioned this before Honda made their body panels out of ABS/PC engineered thermoplastic.   I cant find any spec data from past articles for Honda.  Dow Chemical made the Saturn door panels from 1990 to 2005.  Apparently it was Pulse B250 from 1990-1999.  And Pulse b270 from 2000-2005.  Both materials are ABS/PC.  The change in 2000 increased the thermal dimensional stability by about 30F to help correct panel warping in the sun.  And to maintain better dimensional stability.

 

ABS/PC is pretty tough trying to bend it by hand when its fresh material.   I'm pretty sure the The Honda and Saturn materials are a 99% CTE match.  This car sees ranges of 115F-0F here in Texas.  This point is critical to me so the bond won't also create additional cracks in  another spot or break apart from thermal cycling.   3M 2216 I had tested and used over several military programs.  Good stuff.  Flexes a little w temperature.  Its the best way to repair these panels I can think of.  Correct matching repair material and a super strong aerospace epoxy. 

 

While i had the 2216 out, I reinforced the fan resistors I bought this past year as well.

 

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The dampening material over the coils was cracked out of the box.  As these age from use, the white material flakes off.  Hoping to keep this together longer.


 

 

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Corrected the batch.  2216 doesn't conduct electricity.  I did the best i could to keep it off the coils anyway.

 

Cars ready for the trip.  All back together.

 

A post I did years ago on RPR about Honda plastics.    http://www.redpepper...ics#entry580541

 

Another post I did on Hondas panels.    http://www.redpepper...ics#entry580374

 

These haven't been updated in years and lost their original images.  I'll update them when I can w the new findings.


Keepin' it OEM

#171
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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    • Drives: 9 crx's: #1 228k 87si beater, #2 concours 25K, #3 108K 87si, #4 98K parts car, #5 213K 87si parts car, #6 84 straman, #7 86si 150k #8 67k parts #9 129K si for straman conversion

CSP…..   I looked up ceddasauto.com.    He still has the hinges.   Appear to be brass bushings to replace.  And a new bolt as a replacement pin.   Looks like a good solution

 

thnx again for tip


Keepin' it OEM

#172
CSPCRX

Great write up on panel repair and tip on the fan resister.


Victor
86 K24 Powered CRX SI (SMF Solo2, HPDE-4 NASA & TA-A Time Attack

85 CRX DX totally original
07 Harley FXST Softail

2021 Tacoma Tow/Daily


#173
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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17th ANNUAL ROAD TRIP: DALLAS TO PANAMA CITY.

 

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Clocked 2256 miles.  Now at 303,756 miles.   Cheapest gas was 2.79 in TX, most expensive $3.89 right on the beach in Florida.  My daughter and I spent several days on the trip.  Met up w my brother in Florida.  Had a great time.  Glad to get the opportunity to take a trip w her.   

 

Car drove great.  No issues.  Getting some tire vibration.  I rotated the tires before the trip.  Noticed some excessive wear in some areas.  Had to have come from over loading the car on the last trip to Michigan and NY - distorting the suspension.  I had replaced the rear axle a while back and noticed a little pull from it.  Its time to get the alignment checked.  I'm assuming I'll need shims for the rear spindle.  No rain.  Don't know if the floor boards leak after sealing w urethane.  But not looking to find out.

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Drove the coast line back as much as we could.  Stayed over in Mississippi on the beach.  Had an awesome dinner on the water during a sunset.

 

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I guess this is a jeep thing...  Hanging around the beach and got "ducked".  Someone left these wrapped on the front wipers.   Has the Martigra flare.

 

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Then a quick stop in the French Quarter of NO.  Last time this car was here was 1994.   That was a 2 1/2 week cross country trip back in the day.  Nice to come full circle.

 

I was looking back at the Redpepperracing post I started back in 2009.  Apparently, my first road trip started in 2008 after the car was resurrected from storage to live its second life.   Brings it to the 17th annual trip, not 16th.   Looks like its been on around 27 out of state road trips since 2008.  Spending way too much time on maintenance.  But only had her towed once bc I ran out of gas thinking it was the main relay.

 

I'm sure they're be another Michigan/NY trip and Denver trip later this year.


Keepin' it OEM

#174
CSPCRX

It’s impressive how you venture out on road trips in your CRX!


Victor
86 K24 Powered CRX SI (SMF Solo2, HPDE-4 NASA & TA-A Time Attack

85 CRX DX totally original
07 Harley FXST Softail

2021 Tacoma Tow/Daily


#175
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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CV AXLE JOINT DISASSEMBLE AND OBSERVATIONS.......

 

Brief summary.   More detail on this link 

 https://www.redpeppe...ack#entry580243

 

 

INNER SHAFT JOINT

 

 

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This is the inner joint housing of a remanufactured axle I took apart in 2020  (far contrast to the inner housing that was perfect in the preceding posts from a couple weeks ago).   Can see where the reman company ground the outer race.   I see little wear over the section my pen is pointed to.  I assume it wasn't in service long.  Doesn't look that bad considering  they did the resurfacing by hand as noted by inconsistent grind pattern.

 

53539948094_b4d24951e5_c.jpg

 

This particular slot of three was ground the most and had a slightly over sized needle bearing in it (.005" over).  This bearing marked w twistie, (twistie is holding the bearing together as I removed the circlips to disassemble) wouldn't fit in the other 2 slots.  Issue here is the bearing wouldn't slide all the way into the housing slot it was machined to fit and sticks right at the point you see it in the pix.  Their grinding wasn't done in parallel.  Interference would cause excessive grinding of metal, shortening the life of the joint.

 

This explains to me why reman axles feel gritty and far from smooth as I rotate them new out of the box.  The inner housing is the simple one to grind.  The outer joint is complex geometry you'll see below.   This is why I sure don't want to use a reground outer joint.   Someone in the shop eyeballing w the grinder.

 

 

OUTER JOINT.

 

The outer joints are not supposed to come apart per Honda.  I'm pretty sure reman companies us a hydraulic press to yield the square cross sectioned circlip holding this joint to the shaft. This particular shaft came from an unmolested HONDA OE joint that was smacked hard enough to crack the knuckle.   Assuming the joint was bad from impact, I took a hammer and was able to whack it off the shaft

 

 

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Marked the joint components.  Critical to tap on the joint where the 3/8" extension bar is (between the balls).  then the balls pop up enough on the opposite side to get them out w a small screw driver.  They pop out w moderate force.  Also note where the screw driver is....  the first ball has to come out at this casted-in feature of the cage.

 

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The balls actually interference fit into the cage.  See the small divet ground into the  cage where the ball rests. You can see where the ball popped out of the divet and left marks side to side while in use.


 
 
53539975699_a035251c49_c.jpg
 
 

Here's a pix of the inner race.  There are 2 distinct wear lines here where the ball worn into the race.  I'd assume over time as this wears deeper, this causes the clicking in the joints as the balls roll in and out of the wear path as the joint rotates???

 

I know both of these Joints were Honda OE.  The inner was reground.  The outer was virgin.  I found tool markings from Honda's sub suppliers to identify (stamped into the housings)

 

AFTERMARKET JOINTS.

 

Searching the net for aftermarket joints a few years back, there were several options  back in the day.  I go way out of my way to steer clear of cheap chinese crap.  Much rather over pay for parts made by reputable companies.    Making sure even the metal doesn't come from China as best as I can.

 
53538773287_1d6bb073f6_c.jpg

a

 

 

 

Heres a Joint from Germany by a company called Lobro.  Now I have no idea the build quality until I install and see how they wear.  From the image, the heat treating is obvious.  Honda appears to have heat treated the entire joint, not just spot treated the inner inside bearing contact area of the joint.  Note in the pix where the pencil points to the circlip.  This circlip has a rounded cross.  So the Lobro was designed to  pop off the axle easily.  The Honda is square and its not designed for removal.

 

Someday, I hope to remove good  Honda OE outer joints, reverse them and place on the opposite shaft (drivers to passenger and vis-a-versa).


Keepin' it OEM

#176
greasemonkeyreborne 5x1g's

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    • Drives: 9 crx's: #1 228k 87si beater, #2 concours 25K, #3 108K 87si, #4 98K parts car, #5 213K 87si parts car, #6 84 straman, #7 86si 150k #8 67k parts #9 129K si for straman conversion

Misc car work

 

 

53563173846_b495940e94_c.jpg

 

 

Swapped the drivers seat belt unit I rebuilt a while ago.  Had to pull up the side plastic liner to get to the hardware

 

 

 

 

 

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While I had the hatch open, one of the bumper/aligners was jacked a little.  Pressed it down and it popped out.  Slider tabs broke off from age.  A chunk of the tab is the small piece in my hand.  Pen to the upper right shows where it came from.

 

 

 

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I had been grabbing pieces off junked cars for as long as I can remember.  I store the parts in a climate controlled room hopefully slowing the degradation process.  Over the past few years, I've finally been able to consolidate the parts together and create an inventory database.   Now i know what I have and where it is.  The spring launched out as the part popped out.  Luckily was able to find it.

 

 

 

 

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Grabbed the worst of the parts from storage.  There's a crack across the bottom in the center of the replacement part, but the tabs looked good.  Laying them side by side, can see the years of impression set into the right side of the part to the right, where the pen is pointing.  I'm sure someone is making SLA's of these by now.  

 

Its a challenge maintaining an old car w OE parts driven/used so much.   Perpetual repairs.  Metal parts..  fine.  Its the plastics and rubber.  Then exposed to the southern sun or heat soaked engine bay.  Not a favorable condition.


Keepin' it OEM