14 replies to this topic

[E-AT86]

my ew4 si engine has the intake groves facing forward is that the stock way or do i have to change them the right wayy and how would i do thiss??and how do i take off the the rod off piston with out damiging it

[gtpilot]

my ew4 si engine has the intake groves facing forward is that the stock way or do i have to change them the right wayy and how would i do thiss??and how do i take off the the rod off piston with out damiging it

The piston only goes in one way - with the side with two valve reliefs towards the intake side and the side withthe one valve relief to towards the exhaust side.

Removing the pins from the piston requires a hydraulic press.

The rods only go on one way as well. Check the online manual here on this site.

Kirk

[oldskl87]

my pistons had arrows that pointed toward the intake mainfold. and the pistons also had 2 grooves on the exhaust side, making it seem it was backward in the block. but accoring to the manual it is correct. so if theres an arrow, it should point to the intake and the 2 grooves go on the exhuast side... when i first took my head off, i thought all by pistons were in backwards also. i'd look at a manual to confirm if there in backwards or not.

i tried using press to get the rod off the piston and it looked like it was going to break the piston. i think they have to be baked, then pressed out.

this was on a d15a3 tho.

Edited by oldskl87, 07 July 2010 - 12:12 PM.

[Rampage]

The Injected motors have valve reliefs on the exhaust side. It makes no sense, but thats the way they are.

At least every D15A3/EW3 i've taken apart. Its weird, but thats how honda built them.

[E-AT86]

thannx guyys my engine is a d15a3/EW4 SO I WOULD NEED A MACHINE SHOP TO DO THE DISEMBLING OF THE ROD WITH PISTON?OR WATS THE BEST WAYY JUST TO SAVEE MY GASS AND A COUPLE OTHER BUCKS...

Edited by E-AT86, 08 July 2010 - 08:07 AM.

[jsgprod]

If you've never done it before and don't have the proper tools I'd highly recommend letting a machine shop do it. It's pretty easy to break a piston if it's not done right.

Jay

[Rampage]

What exactly are you up to, anyway?

Rebuilding the motor?

In my experience, so long as the bottom end is tight and you don't have any spun bearings you don't actually need to replace them or bore out the motor.

Simply replacing the piston rings and quickly re-honing the cylinders to ensure a proper seat is more than acceptable as a re-build.

For example, my EF had 300+ KM and would smoke very badly on startup and especially under load over 4000 revs. Once I melted a valve it was time to tear off the head, and while at it I removed and cleaned the pistons, made sure the holes in the oil ring groove were clear, and stuck a new set of standard rings on it and sealed up the motor.

It ran perfectly after that, so well I did a multi-port swap, intake, header, and exhaust, and ran down the 1/4 mile at 16 seconds flat!

I've put together parts to re-ring a D15A3 for about $200 from rockauto, $90 for a gasket kit, $15 for a ring set, and about $100 for new head bolts from Honda.

You HAVE to use new head bolts because they are torque to yeild. Failing to do this will cause the old bolts to stretch, lifting the head and failing the head gasket.

Any other questions i'd be happy to answer.

Cheers,
Mark

[gtpilot]

You HAVE to use new head bolts because they are torque to yeild. Failing to do this will cause the old bolts to stretch, lifting the head and failing the head gasket.

Really? I have reused Honda head bolts on my race motors for years and have never had a head gasket failure - 8,600+ RPM @ 13:1 CR and never a leak from any one of my motors.

Kirk

[EuphoricBlue]

You HAVE to use new head bolts because they are torque to yeild.

Are you sure?

Here are the torque steps from the manual: http://www.redpepper...p6/aax.png.html

They don't look torque to yield, and it doesn't say anything about them being so either. I've only seen torque to yields specs in the form of "torque to X, then tighten 1/2 turn."


Still, unless it's a race engine that you tare down often, I wouldn't skimp on new head bolts. If you're only doing it as a rebuild for a DD, chances are you're going to do it once and expect not to go back in for at least another 150K Km... At that rate, just change the bolts

[Rampage]

Hmm... well i've been told time and time again they are torque to yeild, but then that is info from EF and up guys.... 16 valve motors.

I guess they aren't in the 12-valve?

I have personally had gasket failure from not using new head bolts on a 16-valve motor, and its just not something I want to go through again.

[Rampage]

They don't look torque to yield, and it doesn't say anything about them being so either. I've only seen torque to yields specs in the form of "torque to X, then tighten 1/2 turn."

Seems like this is the correct answer... even the EF manual doesn't say anything about the additional turn.

I've still been taught to replace head bolts every time, like added insurance.

And if my headgasket failure wasn't head bolt related, then apparently I just have horrible luck. Everything I did on that particular motor was perfect, the head gasket replacement and re-ring, all things were torqued and the engine was properly broken in, and put on 10K before the headgasket failed in a very small point on the no. 1 cylinder into the water jacket. It wasn't bad enough to cause a problem, just enough to start displacing coolant with combustion gasses. Everyone I asked as to what could cause that suggested torque to yeild bolts stretching.

Well, I will always choose to replace the bolts, the headache of repeating the job is not worth the savings.

[gtpilot]

Seems like this is the correct answer... even the EF manual doesn't say anything about the additional turn.

I've still been taught to replace head bolts every time, like added insurance.

And if my headgasket failure wasn't head bolt related, then apparently I just have horrible luck. Everything I did on that particular motor was perfect, the head gasket replacement and re-ring, all things were torqued and the engine was properly broken in, and put on 10K before the headgasket failed in a very small point on the no. 1 cylinder into the water jacket. It wasn't bad enough to cause a problem, just enough to start displacing coolant with combustion gasses. Everyone I asked as to what could cause that suggested torque to yeild bolts stretching.

Well, I will always choose to replace the bolts, the headache of repeating the job is not worth the savings.

Do you have your head and block faced so that the surfaces are completely flat and have the right surface finish on them? Every head/block I do I get a couple to a few thou cut on them to make sure everything is flat and true. If not, that may be the problem. If you did, you really do have bad luck with ehad gaskets - sorry!

Kirk

[oldskl87]

as far as the new headbolts go, for right around a 100bucks you can measure your stock ones and call arp directly to ship you head studs that you will never have to replace. plus i doubt you'l have any issues with the head lifting with arp's

i did it last year on my turboed d15a3. success

[Rampage]

Do you have your head and block faced so that the surfaces are completely flat and have the right surface finish on them? Every head/block I do I get a couple to a few thou cut on them to make sure everything is flat and true. If not, that may be the problem. If you did, you really do have bad luck with ehad gaskets - sorry!

Kirk

You may be on to something there... I did have the head milled but not the deck! I did the engine 'rebuild' in the car, dropping the oil pan to access the connecting rod bolts.

FWIW, when choosing a new headgasket for the D15B2, I was asked if the reason for replacement was failure or leakage. Since it didn't fail due to overheating/abuse I assumed thats what they meant and went for the 'leaking' replacement gasket. It is a multi-layered metal style as opposed to the composite style. Unfortunately I didn't get to run the motor long enough to report success or failure, but it was good until its untimely end.

I trust you, Kirk, because I know you've done this a lot more than me. I just don't trust old parts, or maybe myself!!

[gtpilot]

We have seen that the steel sleeves "walk up" in the bores over time and that lead us to skimming the top of the block for each rebuild.

The composite head gasket takes a different surface finish than the multi-layer metal ones as well - perhaps it was a combination of things for you?

Funny, replacing rod bolts is something that I do a lot...ARP all the way!

Kirk