Jump to content




B Series Crx Build Thread


  • You cannot reply to this topic
517 replies to this topic

#1
Lymitliss

  • King Luke
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, Wa
    • Drives: 1986 CRX Si B18C1, 1973 240Z V8 Conversion
    Garage View Garage
At last, the build thread I've been waiting to create!
I was able to get my hands on the short block and head I need for the swap, and so it begins!

What I need now is input from my fellow peppers. Below is a list I've compiled of parts I'm interested in, and what I'm hoping is that everyone with experience can give build tips and personal experiences, what works together, what doesn't, etc.

I've never been afraid to blow money on things, but for now I mostly just want to get this baby together and in my car, not building anything TOO crazy...yet.
However, I am hoping for around 200hp from this initial build.

This will be a somewhat drawn out build due to money and sourcing parts, but I look forward to learning a lot and I appreciate the help in advance!
I will continue to edit this list as I receive more info-

Project car-1986 CRX Si


Parts I have/have on the way-
B18C1 Shortblock---Junkyard
B16 head, mildly ported and decked---Zakats
Edelbrock Victor X manifold---Amazon
Chipped P72 ecu---Guy from class/Speed Factory
OBD0-OBD1 Conversion harness---Xenocron
Top/Bottom End gaskets---Honda
ARP Headstuds---Summit
Skunk 2 Tuner stage 2 cams---Jhpusa.com
Skunk 2 Tuner valve springs and titanium retainers---Realstreetperformance.com
Ferrea High Compression Valves/seat cut---Speed Factory Racing
JDM VTEC solenoid/intermediate shaft---Jdm4drda7
Skunk 2 pro series 68mm throttle body---Skunk2.com
Rear engine mount from 99-2000 Civic---Honda
92/93 GSR upper radiator hose---Honda
90/91 LS lower radiator hose---Honda
Header (Tri Y replica)---Ebay
1st gen Integra knuckles---Junkyard
1992 GSR transmission---Junkyard
HF gauge cluster---Junkyard
Fidanza flywheel---Ebay
90/91 Integra VSS---Junkyard
CB7 Injectors---Junkyard
OBD1 Distributor---Ebay
2.5" exhaust tubing---Summitracing
Chipping kit---Xenocron
Hasport Axles---Ebay
Hasport Mounts---Ebay
ACT clutch---Clutchcityonline.com
Magnaflow straight through muffler---Oreilleys





Modifications to rig up-
Finish modding engine wiring harness
Shift linkage
Dent in frame rail/IACV area
Relocate battery (not necessary, but a nice mod)
Push radiator farther towards front (maybe)




Parts I'd like to get eventually (Soon if I find a deal)-
Some sort of limited slip diff
Some type of system to monitor ECU information
Extra set of wheels/slicks


This is what she looks like, incase anyone cares to see-

Build Thread- Here


#2
NWClassicHonda

  • "Leader of the pack"
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, WA
    • Drives: 85 CRX Si, 87 Civic Si, 88 Integra Special
    Garage View Garage
West Seattle huh?

"for all your pre-1988 Honda restoration needs 206-940-8173"

"vouch thread"
http://www.redpepper...l=&fromsearch=1

 

1g, 2g, 3g Civic

1g CRX

1g Integra

1g, 2g, 3g Accord

1g, 2g, 3g Prelude

cars, parts, collectibles and more!

http://www.nwclassichonda.com


#3
Lymitliss

  • King Luke
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, Wa
    • Drives: 1986 CRX Si B18C1, 1973 240Z V8 Conversion
    Garage View Garage
Magnolia,but that's not where I live I just went for the pics!
Build Thread- Here


#4
DEIVIONCRX

  • Demon Of All Trades
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2013 Contributor
    • Location:Oklahoma
    • Drives: 87 Civic Si, 88 Civic DX, 90 CRX DX, 80 Trans Am, 10 Fit Sport
    • Image Gallery
    Garage View Garage
For the intake setup i would get a ITR intake manifold and TB, or the aftermarket equivalent AEBS and a Blox/Skunk2/BDL throttle body etc.

For fuel system I'm currently running the stock pump it seems fine, I'm not leaning out but I'm also on a stock B18A1.

Ive never seen the need for aftermarket fuel rails and the such. Unless you running AN lines its a lot easier to thread into the aftermarket rails at that point.

For the fuel line from the filter to the rail i just used what i had laying around, CRV, Integra, Civic, Accord whatever i could find that would fit. I ended up not being 100% with any of them so i took the best ends and had them made into a custom line at a local place that does nothing but hose.

Gasket kit, OEM or go home. Acuraautomotiveparts.org is the Majestic Version of Acura parts.

ARP head studs are awesome, i love mine. Just make sure you get a 1/2" 12pt socket for the nuts. A 13mm will do in a pinch.

For your data-log cable check out http://www.moates.ne...;products_id=78

The chippable ecu and chrome will require a chip burner or a RTP daughter board. Basically you'll burn a base chip, go to the dyno or drive and build your tune, re-burn a chip stick it it, and do it all over again till your happy. Or with something like the Demon i got, you can just upload the tune to it over and over. Same difference, different price, different amount of labor.

To tune yourself you'll need a wide-band 02 sensor of some sort. If your going to a dyno they should have one. If not you'll have to buy one. The LC-1 from Innovate seems to be the cheapest best solution. Thats what i bought, i went with the XD16 gauge because i wanted to be able to keep a eye on it on the race track. Their DB gauge, or the Moates 02 Gauge would be a cheaper solution. You can use it without the gauge as well, Chrome will allow you to wire it up so it displays on your laptop.

The distributor, unfortunately the OEM housing option like i did isn't available they run from $200-400, instead of the $100 i payed for my 94-95 Non-Vtec. So your only solution is Used or new from somebody like Distributor King, they used to be damn good, but lately I've herd some horror stories about distributors being bad out of the box, but I've also herd good things. IDK if its pick and a poke or what.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...sQ5fAccessories

Definitely go with Hasport for your Wiring, Axles and Mounts, Keith and his brother are 2 of the best guys I've ever had contact with. Their Axles are a lot nicer than the other options. HASport has made me a believer. I don't think they still sell the shift linkage, but its fairly easy to do it yourself, i like 1" square tubing from Home Depot/Lowe's it fits over the pipe great, or find something to cram inside the tubing so its got less of a chance of flexing and cracking your welds on those Power Shifts.

The fidanza flywheel is the lightest option out there, but i chose the XACT Pro-Lite over it because i don't like the replaceable material flywheels, the holes in the surface are a reduction in friction material for me, and the XACT is chromoly. The Fidanza is 7lbs, the XACT is 8.8. http://www.clutchcit...CT/600105.shtml

Clutch is 100% up to you, i wanted a Kevlar clutch for the reusable and the lessening damage to the flywheel. And i wanted a spring-less/rigid hub disc because I've always attributed the springs popping out to a lightweight flywheel, I've only seen one person pop the springs out of a clutch disc on a stock flywheel, its always been a lightweight. I went with Action Clutch, Alex built me a custom 1KS that is solid hub.

Since you haven't bought your Hasport mounts yet you have the option of Cable or Hydro. I would literally just get whatever you can find, if you don't plan on upgrading the Differential stay away from the 90-91 Cable its a weaker differential vs the 92-93 and 94+. For gear ratio get something B16, the LS ratios are still better than our stock EW's but the B16 is a lot higher. Look for one with a 4.4 or 4.85 final drive. There is a random B16 transmission or there with a 4.2 final drive like the LS's, Theres also some LS's with 4.4's. Of course with the Hydro trans you'll need to figure out how you want to actuate the slave cylinder. HAsport sells 2 of the 3 options. First would be the mechanical device that bolts on to the transmission and uses the cable like stock to pull on the Clutch fork. The 2nd would be the device that uses the cable to operate a master cylinder, plumbed into the slave cylinder. The last would be to physically add a Master cylinder to your pedal assembly under the dash, I've seen it posted on RPR i think in the Barnyard built thread. All have their pros and cons. I like the Cable to Master Cylinder option best #2.

The CRV upper radiator hose is only good for the Non-Vtec motors. For the VTEC motors you'll probably want to look at the 92-93 GSR upper. For the lower, they all should be the same 90-91 Integra LS works the best for me. Now saying that, your buying B-series hoses so they will be larger on the Radiator side, the Radiator is setup for the smaller D-series hoses. I just double clamped them to ensure they wouldn't leak. I also like to run NAPA hoses because they run smaller.

For LSD, I'm going to go with Wavetrack, Its the best of both the Clutch and Helical Gear Type. Another option would be the Mfactory, and on the expensive side Quaife or Kaaz.

For your dent in the Frame Rail, don't forget a Dent for the IACV as well.

Posted Image

#5
Lymitliss

  • King Luke
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, Wa
    • Drives: 1986 CRX Si B18C1, 1973 240Z V8 Conversion
    Garage View Garage
Thanks for the quick response!

So for the ECU, what I was hoping was to find one that will work where I don't have to pull any chips, I'd prefer just having a cable running out of it so I can plug into my laptop and mod the map on the spot. Is this unrealistic, or is that sort of what your "Demon" ecu is?

I guess I have a lot of decisions to make!
Build Thread- Here


#6
DEIVIONCRX

  • Demon Of All Trades
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2013 Contributor
    • Location:Oklahoma
    • Drives: 87 Civic Si, 88 Civic DX, 90 CRX DX, 80 Trans Am, 10 Fit Sport
    • Image Gallery
    Garage View Garage
Thats exactly what my Demon is, as well as the Hondata S300.

The Moates Demon, its what you would call a Romulator, it emulates a chip, but allows for real time programing. It also has on board data logging so you wouldn't need the Hulelog cable. You'll have to do some research on Chrome's forum and PGMFI.org about the capability's of Chrome and the Demon, i know a lot of people are using it, but i did all my research on ECTune instead of Chrome.

Another option if you don't want to deal with all the DIY and separate parts is the Hondata S300, i don't care for hondatas price and their attempted lawsuit against PGMFI founder Dave, but there product is top notch. It basically is the same setup as the Demon and ECTune or Chrome, just everything preinstalled and ready to plug in and go.

http://www.moates.ne...products_id=208
Posted Image

#7
Lymitliss

  • King Luke
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, Wa
    • Drives: 1986 CRX Si B18C1, 1973 240Z V8 Conversion
    Garage View Garage
So if I got the Hondata S300, I assume I need a stock ECU to begin with. If so, do they sell those with the S300? I'd really prefer not to have to solder the stuff myself...


Anyway, anyone have a guess on what I might run in the quarter mile with this setup? I have some Falken Azenis 205/50/15s that grab nicely, but sadly I don't think I'll have the LSD right away!
Build Thread- Here


#8
zakats

  • 1980's birth control, brought to you by Honda.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2014 Contributor
    • Drives: The work car, way more than I'd care to admit
    Garage View Garage
fuck hondata (see my sig) ECtune crome or neptune are just as good.
romulators are cool, pricey though for the poor man's tuning solution but gives you standalone league options.


Considering I've seen a member running stock b16a's with (maybe cams) i/h/e/tune run 13 flat in an 87 crx si, if your driving+conditions are good, you should beat that.... of course you have to have good supporting mods to get you there too

if he's running the B16 IM or itr replica, he might not need to dent for IACV- P75 IM's certainly require it though dry.gif

dropping some ITR pistons in would certainly make a lot more zoom but would likely be a lot more, unnecessary work...
He who dies with the most toys, wins.

#9
Lymitliss

  • King Luke
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, Wa
    • Drives: 1986 CRX Si B18C1, 1973 240Z V8 Conversion
    Garage View Garage
QUOTE (zakats @ Apr 29 2010, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
fuck hondata (see my sig) ECtune crome or neptune are just as good.

dropping some ITR pistons in would certainly make a lot more zoom but would likely be a lot more, unnecessary work...


I know you hate Hondata but they have too many awesome options!

Also, I'm reading online and a lot of people say the B16 head on the GSR block loses power without ITR pistons dry.gif

But then some say it's definitely an improvement! I'm so lost!

Apparently the GSR head has more air flow, but the B16 has higher velocity air flow, so I don't know if I'm gonna lose power or not sleep.gif
Build Thread- Here


#10
zakats

  • 1980's birth control, brought to you by Honda.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2014 Contributor
    • Drives: The work car, way more than I'd care to admit
    Garage View Garage
there is a lot to be said about the difference between the b16 and gsr heads- I'll just leave it at this: honda used the gsr/b16 combination in the ITR engine for a reason what that reason is, I don't know but I'm guessing they would have used the GSR head in their top of the line engines if it were best.

neptune and ECtune have just as many options and aren't a company ran by cockwads.
He who dies with the most toys, wins.

#11
Lymitliss

  • King Luke
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, Wa
    • Drives: 1986 CRX Si B18C1, 1973 240Z V8 Conversion
    Garage View Garage
Good point, some people gave crappy HP numbers and said it was attributed to the B16 head sucking, then again they might be someone that barely knows how to operate a car, let alone mod one.

I like Crome, I just figured Hondata was the easy, get it all done at once option. I'd be just as happy with a "Demon"/Crome setup but I hate soldering... sleep.gif
Build Thread- Here


#12
DEIVIONCRX

  • Demon Of All Trades
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2013 Contributor
    • Location:Oklahoma
    • Drives: 87 Civic Si, 88 Civic DX, 90 CRX DX, 80 Trans Am, 10 Fit Sport
    • Image Gallery
    Garage View Garage
Yes you can buy Pre-Installed S300 units. The Demon actually is plug'n'play the only soldering that needs to be done is the same if your chipping the ecu. So if you were to buy a pre-chipped ecu from somebody like Phearable/Xenocron, all you would have to do is remove the chip, plug in the Demon, hook up the datalog cable to it and run the USB cable to your laptop.

The Demon takes the place of the chip, you can get a better look at the install here.

I don't care for Hondata, but there setup is very nice, its a lot more mature than ECTune or Chrome, while both are very nice, they still have bugs pop up and other random issues, nothing major but stuff that Hondata has spent a lot of money Beta testing and getting rid of.

There is a reason Endyn uses the GSR head on their builds, and even worked with DHPS on the new aftermarket B-series heads to help take the best from the GSR head for their new ones.

Neither the B16 or the GSR suck, they just have pro's and con's. And compression will almost always add power, with the exception of a huge dome that is not letting the flame propagate correctly or inhibiting it.
Posted Image

#13
Lymitliss

  • King Luke
  • PipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2012 Contributor
    • Location:Seattle, Wa
    • Drives: 1986 CRX Si B18C1, 1973 240Z V8 Conversion
    Garage View Garage
Maybe I'll try the P28 equivalent VTEC ECU with the Demon emulator then... I think I'll use Crome, but it's also the only one I've tried and even the free version had all the options I think I'd ever use... Or is the P28 SOHC?

Now I'm just awaiting the delivery of some parts and I'll post some pics of my progress!
Build Thread- Here


#14
zakats

  • 1980's birth control, brought to you by Honda.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2014 Contributor
    • Drives: The work car, way more than I'd care to admit
    Garage View Garage
it doesn't really matter what obd1 civic/integra ecu you get, you can convert anything to manual trans+vtec- getting a p28 manual trans just takes a couple steps out of the progress. If you want to run a stock ecu before converting it, you'd be best to get your hands on an obd1 p72.
He who dies with the most toys, wins.

#15
DEIVIONCRX

  • Demon Of All Trades
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • Group: 2013 Contributor
    • Location:Oklahoma
    • Drives: 87 Civic Si, 88 Civic DX, 90 CRX DX, 80 Trans Am, 10 Fit Sport
    • Image Gallery
    Garage View Garage
Yes literally every Civic/Integra 92-95 ECU can be used and converted to P28 status. Just stay away from the Accord and Prelude ECU's they are different.

P05, P06, P28, P75, PR4, P73, P72 etc all are chippable.
Posted Image