39 replies to this topic

[dan86si]

Long time reader, first time poster.

I'm sure this information is on this site, but I need help making the proper decisions as to the aging brakes on my 86si. I've been doing autocross and open track days for a couple of years, with no major mechanical problem or failures to date. I upgraded the brakes to AEM pads on the front, Brembo discs, Goodrich SS lines, and Motul 600 fluid. This is just fine for autocross, but the heat involved in road racing during the summer months in Oklahoma might have finally taken it's toll.

After my last event, after frying my front pads down to the plates, I replaced the pads and bled the lines just for good measure. Everything was fine, so thought, until recently the pedal is slowly sinking to the floor when I set at a light. I've tried placing my foot firmly on the pedal when the engine is off and it holds just fine. I'm assuming from info that I've gleened from this site, that this indicates a failing booster. I have not seen any leaks or a reduction of fluid in the MC.

Since it looks like I need to spend some time and money, what upgrades can I do without major modifications? I've read that the front calipers and discs from the 86-89 Integra are a direct swap with no other parts, and I recall reading that the booster/mc from something fits to the firewall and pedal as well, but I cant find it again. Since the age of these cars makes buying junkyard parts a risky prospect, I've decided to get someting either new or rebuilt from Autozone or somewhere that comes with a warranty, of course I can always take the CRX parts back for the core refund.

Any help from you folks would be greatly appreciated. I'm off this weekend, after payday no less, and the time is ripe! Thanks.

[strudel]

Right at the top of this section actually: http://www.redpepper...p?showtopic=648

Another good thread is the Kakabox build and the brake info is here: http://www.redpepper...ic=20659&st=390

There may be some earlier but I didn't look for it. JS

[87ClubRed]

I did the Integra fronts. Easy as unbolt -> bolt on. I noticed not really more stopping power, but more pedal feel (if that makes any sense???)

I deffinately recommend it even for spirited driving

[cbstdscott]

A sinking pedal at a stop light is possibly a brake booster issue.

AEM pads are... just OK. If you plan on serious use (track days) you need serious pads. I highly recommend Porterfield pads and shoes (they will make they custom to your needs). There IS a difference in brake pad materiel.

Being new you may not have seen any of my rants about brakes on this forum. Long story short- Friction materiel (tires and pads) do the stopping. Good quality (race) tires and pads work best on the track. Street stuff is OK for the street, the track is a VERY different set of circumstances.

The Integra upgrade in front is the best hardware change you can make. Lots of people love their swapped in Integra rear disks.

I respectfully suggest that you consider alternative solutions... the aluminum drums from the 85-87 CRX HF are the lightest brakes you can put on your car, they diapate heat nearly as well as disks, stop just as well as rear disks if not better, and redue your unsprung weight and rotational mass.

Plus, they are lot easier to install.

Scott

[kakabox]

Since it looks like I need to spend some time and money, what upgrades can I do without major modifications?  I've read that the front calipers and discs from the 86-89 Integra are a direct swap with no other parts, and I recall reading that the booster/mc from something fits to the firewall and pedal as well, but I cant find it again. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's the MC sized for '86-'89 'teg brake conversion that fits 1/3g boosters post: http://www.redpepper...ndpost&p=262552

FWIW: one road racer's testomonial on 'teggy rear disc vs. drums: [Greg Gauper] "And while the aluminum drums are ok for a few laps they do give up a bit during a race on brake killer tracks (sorry Scott, but it's a fact). I hope to have a read disc set up for next year as well as a Tilton 'race' M/C setup to get rid of my booster."

Going boosterless reduces pedal travel, improves brake modulation and feel and also allows the use of the '86-'89 'teg MC (for the 'teg brake swap) w/o modification. Boosterless conversion post here: http://www.redpepper...ndpost&p=269986 ...and part 2 here: http://www.redpepper...ndpost&p=273199

Don't be fooled, the 'teg brake swap is relatively easy to do and straight forward once you get the correct information and parts!

Cheers!

[rpr]

It's most likely the master cylinder that needs to be replaced.

[autoxcrx]

Since we are on the subject of the Integra front brake conversion... Do the 85 Si 13" alloy wheels clear the integra brakes?

[Screech]

I prefer the rear disk for the lazy, after the install is done, factor. I can check the pads with the wheels on, with drums I have to remove the wheel and drum to check.

I have some Z-racing 13" alloy wheels that clear the brakes by ~1/4", not enough room for the stick-on wheel weight where they were.

[cbstdscott]

Since we are on the subject of the Integra front brake conversion...  Do the 85 Si 13" alloy wheels clear the integra brakes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes

[cbstdscott]

And while the aluminum drums are ok for a few laps they do give up a bit during a race on brake killer tracks (sorry Scott, but it's a fact).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny, it has not been a problem at Willowsprings or Buttonwillow (fast tracks with high ambient heat). I would say it is more of a function of the pads, fluid and cooling techniques you are using in your front brakes rather than the rear brakes.

However, 99% of our members are NEVER going to stress their brakes like that. In all but the most extreme circumstances (enduro racing in Death Valley?) the aluminum drums work just fine.

Scott

[pvbcrx]

The Integra front rotor & caliper swap is just about the easiest improvement you do to a 1G, as others have already said. I used a combination of new/refurb parts off eBay and from the local AutoNAPABoys. Try RockAuto online if you want to order everything at once. You won't need a bigger master cylinder unless you also are doing a rear disc swap. I'm happy with using HF aluminum drums in the rear, so I retained the stock MC after installing the Integra brakes up front.

I did have one semi-related problem with the Integra front discs - the bigger rotors rubbed on the ball joint boss on new aftermarket lower control arms that I simultaneously installed. This was especially noticeable during sharp turns and bumps. I blame this on sloppy trimming of the castings; AFAIK OEM LCAs don't seem to have this problem. At first I didn't know what the heck was going on - it sounded godawful, like the whole front end was coming apart! A little work with a grinding wheel on the LCAs fixed things. But, as I think Tom mentioned a while back, it would have eventually taken care of itself.

kakabox - thanks to you and DEIVIONCRX for finally putting to rest what bigger MC will work on a CRX booster, without whittling. Don't need it now, but if I decide to ever leave the HF drum camp I'll know what to order.

[87ClubRed]

...the aluminum drums work just fine...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, by telling everyone constantly to use the aluminum drums, I assume that they're readily available? Can you even buy these things anymore?

It's one thing to be "the best", but it would be nice if you could actually find them.

[Screech]

So, by telling everyone constantly to use the aluminum drums, I assume that they're readily available?  Can you even buy these things anymore?

It's one thing to be "the best", but it would be nice if you could actually find them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I looked at Rockauto for the drums on an 86 CRX HF and 3 out of the 4 pictured look like the aluminum drums to me. Prices range from ~$60 to ~120 each + shipping.

[87ClubRed]

I looked at Rockauto for the drums on an 86 CRX HF and 3 out of the 4 pictured look like the aluminum drums to me.  Prices range from ~$60 to ~120 each + shipping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm...interesting. I've heard of people ordering 'hf' drums, only to get cast iron. If you can get them, that changes everything.

Can anyone confirm?

[pvbcrx]

I've got the Beck/Arnley ones, P/N 832558, available at Rock Auto like Screech mentioned. One giveaway if a vendor is trying to foist off iron drums on you is that they'll be much cheaper. I bought an aluminum set off eBay, but only after confirming the P/N.

Here's the link to the Rock Auto page, they're a cool vendor because they have pictures of many of their parts:
,Rear%20Brake%20Drum,partGroup,14]

The HF drums stay shiny and don't look too shabby behind aftermarket wheels. I work in aerospace so I can't help being partial to aluminum, I guess. Here's a picture of mine:
HF Drums Installed