6 replies to this topic

[Andy69]

This is an honest review of a product I purchased for my 1st generation CRX autocross car.  It is not intended to be a post bashing a vendor or product, but rather an honest appraisal of a particular product and its suitability for the intended application.  If this is inappropriate for this forum please move or delete as necessary.

 

I purchased a set of Medieval Pro caster/camber plates from Heeltoe  Automotive at the beginning of January, 2014.  It took about 4 weeks for the set to ship, which is completely understandable given it is probably a low volume item.  I asked for several updates over the four weeks and my inquirees were always answered promptly.

 

The product arrived neatly packaged, with each piece individually bubble wrapped.  The billet aluminum pieces were well machined and everything fit together as it was supposed to.  There were no instructions included, but I found several pictures of the installed plates on the internet so it was pretty easy to figure out how everything went together.

 

The fasteners included stainless steel and zinc coated bolts with nylock nuts.  The stainless fasteners were typical hardware store grade, and quickly proved problematic, as even with anti seize compound they quickly galled and had to be twisted apart by force. I replaced them with grade 8.8 metric fasteners (roughly equivalent to grade 5 SAE fasteners), which proved to be much more durable and probably stronger (standard hardware store grade stainless is roughly equivalent to grade 2 SAE fasteners and are not intended for load bearing applications). 

 

Aside from the problem with the fastners, the set went together nicely and I was able to get the alignment set equally on both sides of the car.  The grooves machined into the pieces enabled me to get the settings identical on both sides.

 

My first outing with the car was the first SCCA autocross event of the season, held at Millington on February 22nd-23rd, 2014.  The results of the installation were dramatic.  The car handled much better and I was able to drive the car hard enough that I broke an axle and a few other things.

 

However, as I was repairing the damage, I noticed that the driver side camber plate, specifically the middle plate, had broken.  After a careful look, I noted that the failure ocurred at what was probably the highest point of stress.  Not sure what to do, I contacted Marcus at Heeltoe and he assured me that breakage was not a problem with this set, and that he would send out a replacement plate right away.

 

I took a closer look and noticed that the passenger side plate was beginning to fail in the same place.  From what I gather, it looks like the major point of upward stress directed by the top of the shock is concentrated on the thinnest point of the middle plate, which is made even weaker by the addition of a hole for the bolt that fastens the top plate.  In my opinion, this is a flaw in the design that makes this product unsuitable for use in a car that sees extreme use such as track days or autocross, unless extensive modification is done in the form of replacement hardware and redesigned middle plate made of a material other than aluminum.

 

In addition, I never recieved the replacement part I was promised.  I don't think it would have mattered, given that it probably would have failed in the same manner.  What I did to rememdy the situation was to make a pair of middle plates out of 3/8" steel using the damaged original plates as patterns.  They aren't pretty and aren't adjustable, but they don't need to be either of those for my purposes.  They do need to be strong, which they are.

 

If you're looking for a set of plates for a car that will see heavy track use, you will be better off looking elsewhere inless you are willing to make some extensive substitutinos and modifications to this set.

[cbstdscott]

Medieval Pro/Heel Toe Automotive is a long time supporter of this community that provides parts that are not available anywhere else at any price. I have had nothing but excellent relations and outstanding parts from the company's proprietor Marcus/Mr Disability over the years. I can only suppose that there was some sort of communication problem between the OP and the company in regards to this issue.

 

I regard to camber plate failures, I have had a similar problem with the similar camber plate parts from OPM (don't bother looking them up, they are out of the business of supplying 1st/3rd Gen parts). We have to recognize that these are not OEM parts that get much more engineering and development. And if you are using your 23+ year old car for track events (and that includes autocross which is not as harsh as as most race usage) there is a higher likelihood of part failure.

 

To the OP- I suggest you try contacting Marcus again, his business lives for customer service and I amsure he would want to "make good" for you.

 

Scott

[84b18]

Thanks for the review. Like Scott I would like to point out that Medieval Pro/Heel Toe Automotive and Marcus/Mr Disability have served this community extremely well and I have never been disappointed by them.

 

What struts, spring rates and ride height are you running?

[84b18]

I was mostly concerned that the front struts may be bottoming out but I read your "Thoughts On Springs, Lowering The Car, Breaking Stuff, Etc" post and you said you did the "zip tie test" Victor mentioned and they were not bottoming out.

[chedda_j]

After having a few people have the same part break me and Rob Hibbs produced our own style for cheddasauto consisting mostly of stainless parts.

Markus has done lots for the community, sadly it seems that the failure is from a design flaw. Be light on them and I hope they last you a long time. Marcus will always make it right.

[Andy69]

Like I said, I have no desire to bash Marcus or Heeltoe. And I probably need to make it known that I REALLY appreciate the time and effort taken to provide parts for a car that 99.9% of parts makers have abandoned.  That's a very limited market.   But, it would have been nice to know this about these plates before spending the money I did.

 

I should add that both the bottom and top plates are fine.  The threads on one bottom plate were damaged when I removed the galled nut and bolt combo but when the middle plate is tightened down to the top plate and shock tower, that doesn't really matter.  It becomes a solid unit at that point.

 

Make that middle plate out of steel, include more material in the area where it failed, and source more durable hardware, and I think these plates would be top notch.  I made a replacement middle plate out of 3/8" steel, and while it's not pretty, I suspect I'll tear off the top of the shock tower before I break it.

 

On another note, I didn't actually try the twist tie trick.  I measured the shock travel and then closely examined a multitude of photos of the car in action (we have a great pro photographer who comes to EVERY event, takes tons of photos, puts them up on Dropbox for free, and only asks for voluntary donations to cover equipment and other expenses).  I concluded that the suspension is far from bottoming even in the most extreme manouvers.

[CSPCRX]

I was one of the first to get plates from Marcus. I have worked with him and respect what he does.  I destroyed my plates when I got off line and slammed my strut into the plate.  Mine failed teh same way.  I do not completely blame the plate as the strut length is also a factor.  I ran them for a number of races, time attack and Solo2, with no issues until this event.  As you I found they were easy to adjust and held their adjustment very well. Unlike others I had used that slipped.

 

I went with another design this time for two reasons.  I wanted a lower design so I can get a cross brace installed again and so the strut tops dont keep dimpling my hood.